#68 Aging Joints & Grateful Bodies: Elbows, Fingers, Sleep, and the Stories We Tell Ourselves

Physiotherapist and coach Andy McVittie returns to the podcast for a deeper dive into the aging body — what breaks down, why it happens, and how to keep moving through it all.

In this episode, we move from big-picture thinking to the specific joints and patterns that affect everyday athletes most: shoulders, elbows, fingers, and knees. Andy shares how to work around pain, when to push and when to pull back, and how aging athletes can train with purpose — not fear.

We also explore unexpected territory:
 – Are sleep positions actually causing injury?
 – What’s the mental toll of chronic pain or long-term rehab?
 – How can we shift from frustration to gratitude when our bodies don’t move like they used to?

Whether you’re an aging athlete, a weekend warrior, or just trying to stay active without breaking down, this one is packed with insights that go beyond rehab — and into how we relate to our bodies over time.

🎧 What we cover:

• Bulletproofing shoulders, elbows, fingers, and knees
• Common mistakes in managing pain and recovery
• Why tendon issues don’t heal like muscle injuries
• Strategies for staying active through discomfort
• The surprising role of mindset and body gratitude
• Whether sleep posture actually matters for pain

📌 Guest: Andy McVittie
Website: processphysiotherapy.co.uk
Instagram: @process.physio
Book: The Self-Rehabbed Climber – Available on Amazon

🙏 Enjoying Ageless Athlete? Help keep the show going and Buy Me A Coffee! Every contribution helps keep the mic, and the inspiration flowing. Thanks for being here ❤️

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Transcript

Ageless Athlete - Andy McVittie - Part II
===

[00:00:00] 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Andy, great to see you. Last time we tackled a lot of foundational topics. We talked about the myths of aging, importance of strength, the trap of reducing activity too soon. We also zoomed in on knees for a little bit and we talked about most common complaints amongst aging athletes and how to manage knee pain and stay strong. Today I'm hoping we can build on that and go deeper into key regions shoulders. ankles, fingers and feet. We will also want to zoom out again to talk about overall conditioning, how 

training needs to evolve [00:01:00] as we age and 

how to prevent common injuries before they start. Andy, 

welcome back. 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: thank you.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: do you.

feel about the agenda for today?

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah, no, that, that sounds fantastic. Um, I think it is, it's good to have the opportunity to speak broadly. And you know, a lot of the things that maybe we spoke about knees, I mean, if we just pick that because it's a very common complaint can be applied to, you know, the, the principles can be applied to any joint to the body, but it's nice to then go and.

Get specific and then as you say take a a broader look again. It's that context that's needed.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Super. Well, okay, let's jump in with shoulders. So, 

A lot of aging 

athletes lose. overhead mobility realizing it. I am [00:02:00] own favorite, uh, here. I started losing mobility in my twenties. I think when I realized I could not, I could no longer serve overhead in tennis.

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: hmm 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Be a keen tennis

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah, 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: And I basically just stopped playing tennis and I moved on. And, and then, 

you know, uh, fasting forward 20 years. And now I find that my 

mobility in my 

shoulders has gone down

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: okay.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: And I think that people perhaps don't realize this happens because one doesn't always need overhead mobility 

for many

things, unlike knees, you

know. where we and use earnings all the

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yes. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: So what is your favorite way [00:03:00] to maintain healthy shoulders and 

range of motion? 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: ~other areas.~

~The body, ~if we feel we've lost mobility because, um, you know? we've just not been going there. We've just not used to being there. Um, then it's, it's a balance of most things, you know? so some stretching, encouraging stretching into that area. I think often when people are stretching, they go kind of too hard, really hard into it. Um, So some nice, consistent. Static stretching can be useful pain free also some work into the end range So the type of thing may be where you would lie on the floor with your arms overhead in a, in a Y position. If you're able to do that, keep the arms super straight and lifting the hands off the floor.

So actually [00:04:00] actively working against gravity, pull a guy. And that that's hard to do even with. with no weights or anything like that at all. But sometimes we can have the range in a shoulder, you know, the actual functional ranges or the actual range is there within the joint itself, but we haven't got the control. We haven't got the strength to access that is often kind of the first thing to go. Um, If it's, you know, age related disuse type issue. So to actually work, you know, do some stretching, then give the shoulder a signal to go into that range under its own steam, instead of being helped to get there under its own effort. But one of the best that can be adjusted in various ways is.

to spend time in a hanging position. and I'm here talking obviously about, particularly about climbers. Um, but many overhead athletes, you know, if you've got a pull up bar that you can get feet on the floor. And to [00:05:00] spend some time in an active position, you can alter that to wherever your comfort level is.

You could have feet on a chair, so your body is much more or much less of an angle, uh, rather than being totally vertical, because that can be, um, you know, irritating and painful for shoulders sometimes, and just spending time, you know, but we'd sort of hinted at in the start there that we'd stop spending time in these ranges. and that's one of the reasons. Why we can lose range if we're just looking at the age related, you know, process. The other side of that really that we see with, uh, shoulders in particular, of, of difficulty moving them, of pain moving them, that type of thing, is often tendon related, um, and that's my, you know, we, we spoke last time about [00:06:00] strength being super important, which it, is, you know, keep your muscle mass, improve your muscle mass, keep and improve your muscular strength, Um, all of that side of things.

Power as well, all of this, but what's just as if, if potentially not more important and I'm, yeah, I'm going to say just as important because if you say one's more important than the other, than people ignore the other one, we'll say both, um, is the, the tendons themselves and, and how we treat those. And to hanging is, is a good example.

We tend to hang for time, you know, hang for time. 20, 30, 45 seconds, something like that. Uh, very good for the joint. That's your kind of stretch if you like through into it, but, also really good for tendons um, and tendons are not a very responsive tissue. Um, we, a lot of the tendons that we, that you can have in your, in your fifties, sixties and, seventies, [00:07:00] that collagen was laid down when you were a teenager.

That's been with you potentially, if you know, for 50 or 60 years, the tendon itself therefore has much more potential to degenerate, to degrade than a muscle does. Muscles are constantly being renewed and replenished, um, and tendons aren't, and it's the fluid around the tendon, many changes happen in the tendon we can touch on later if you want, but, uh, what I will say here is that, yeah, we need to spend.

Some time on our tendons as we get older, um, and isometric work. So static held positions with that tendon under some low level, low to medium level of strain doesn't have to be super hard work. Um, yeah, it's a really valuable thing to do And that actually fits in quite nicely, You know, with getting that range back.

So [00:08:00] yeah, my, my number one, what would I do would be to find a way. to load in an overhead position for time that doesn't cause any negative symptoms and build from there. ~ Mm hmm. ~ Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Beautiful, Andy. One

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah, 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: I 

suppose we should quickly cover, is 

any simple movement tests or warning signs people should watch out

for. Because like I said, I did not keep a close eye 

on my own. mobility degrading and, uh, I'm finding out kind of late. So are there, are there some tests that 

people

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: so these things do creep up on us. [00:09:00] You're quite right. you know, we lose a percent here or there and we sort of don't notice and the body can adapt around it as well. We can gain extra, you know, or work and bend through our thoracic spine or lumbar spine in order to compensate for overhead mobility loss.

We may not even notice it happening. So a super important thing I feel to do is to benchmark is to find what's normal for you Various different ways that we can do this. Um, but you know, the, the good old, Um, you know, wall angel or a floor angel, that kind of thing, you could video yourself doing the wall angel.

Um, for people that don't, there's where you put your back flat against the wall and you put your, or try to put your, elbows and your hands against the wall as well, and straighten your arms overhead. Pull them back down. Um, or take a photo of yourself from the side, reaching overhead as high as you can. Um, yeah. And, and reaching [00:10:00] behind as well. Um, as far as you can. so you've got something to reference it against. Now this isn't something that you would then check every week to see what's going on. It's not worth, uh, spending your time with that But every year, give it your, your, your new year, um, MOT, we would say, in the UK.

Which is the annual sort of safety check that your, car has. It's a, it's a term that we use it as sort of like to check everything's okay. Everything's running. all right. You change your oil, you change, you know, all the service at that type of thing. Um, so yeah, you give yourself a once over the start of every year, be that Start of training season, start of climbing season, whatever works for you, or the new year, just because that's the time when people, you know, often are thinking about these kind of things.

Um, and just, just look, and that can be then you could look at your splits, you know, you could look at your, you know, whatever movement that you think, and just take a [00:11:00] photo, you know, we've all got the, the digital, you know, data to, you know, storage now, and then compare each year. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: I remember doing

some wall angels with a physio a while back and 

I think it didn't hit me on how poor my 

form Right? 

So maybe we can spend a second here

because I feel we are so

adaptable, you know, we can compensate in all kinds of ways. So I know that when I was doing that wall angel drill, my left side, which is my bad shoulder side, my back would arch

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yes, okay, so,

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: to allow for my, my ank, my elbow and my wrist too. So can you just speak for a This particular 

drill to assess

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: okay, okay. Now, number [00:12:00] one, I mean, you were noticing a difference there, side to side, it sounds like, between your left side, which you, you call your bad side, I would suggest it's not. Yeah. This, this is a, a well-known thing in, in the physio world. It's not a a bad shoulder, is it? Maybe it has some differences to your right one, but you are still climbing, you're still active, you are still doing lots of stuff.

So be be kinder to your, to your, your left shoulder. Um, yeah, the there are ways that we, we can, well, one of my, um, that that it might be difficult to explain potentially verbally, but we'll we'll give it a go, is to stand in a doorframe and if I'm going to measure, say my, my left shoulder, I would stand in a doorframe. sideways with the doorframe running down my spine on one side with my right hand at my right foot, I would brace against the other side of the doorframe. Most people can reach and do that and make sure that my back is flat [00:13:00] all the way down. Yeah, that my left shoulder can move freely, though, is important and make sure my head's in contact. Yeah, and if we want to be fussy, your left heel is also in contact with doorframe. And this gives us, as much as we can, without building something that looks like a medieval torture device that will keep all bits still, you know, nothing else should be able to move too much there, or change too much.

Um, and so you can take a photo. Uh, from the side there. um, and that takes a lot of these other potential, um, you know, adaptations that the body will move out of the, um, out of the formula really. Um, but going back to wall angels, I feel it's important to say everybody will be different in a wall angel. It, it's not bad.

If you're not able to get your elbows and your wrists in contact, it's not good if you can, um, [00:14:00] you know, and anatomically. Inside internally, certainly bony, what's known as morphology, the shape of our bones, we're all super different Your socket will be a different size than mine. Your, the size of the ball and shape of the ball will be different to mine. the, uh, the acromion, which is a piece of bone that comes off the sits at the top of the shoulder, we know they have different characteristics and shapes, you know, how differently shaped people's chests are, you know, some people are wide and broad, some people are sort of barrel shaped and sort of, um, yeah, you know, different that affects how our shoulders move because of where it attaches to the sternum and then the, uh, the other end where it attaches onto the, On to. the shoulder blade. Some people will be able to, some people will be able to do these side splits. Some people will never be able to do the side splits, no matter how hard they try. that doesn't [00:15:00] mean we shouldn't try And improve what we've got, because we definitely should, and we can do. that. Um, but yeah, we're all different, so don't compare to other people.

Uh, I suppose it would be a much shorter way of saying what I've just said there. Um, yeah, you know, just because somebody else can do that doesn't mean that you either should or need to. Um, but if you, if you've started to feel that you've potentially got an issue there, then chances are, you probably have speak to someone who knows that can confirm whether this is something that needs attention or not.

And then work it and see what you can do. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Fantastic 

for helping break that down. I know that, uh, nothing substitutes the specialized care that somebody's own doctor or

physio 

can provide. And we can't cover everything when it comes to shoulder exercises. One [00:16:00] key exercise, I think that is indeed widely praised is just the dead 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Mm hmm. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: a pull up bar. I think that 

has any

other similar exercises or variations of the dead hang because one variation that 

I have been 

prescribed is what they 

call scapular

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Mm hmm. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: on the, on the pull up bar. So again, you know, this is generalized information. We, we are not trying to treat a particular person, but yeah, any other, uh, thoughts or any other supplements to shoulder, 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: if you want to keep it to, you know, simple. So on a bar. Yeah. Um, so we, we, we, we cast it out here thinking about things like the gym or whatever, that kind of thing, a gym programs, this, that, and the other, you've got a bar at home hung up in your doorway. That's what you've got to work [00:17:00] with. A lot of climbers. I'm not keen on the gym. I think they should be, but they're, but they're not, they like calisthenics. They like the idea of hanging. Um, number one, I would say, make sure you're not doing everything in hanging. One of the best things about, the new, like, you know, pickups from the floor kind of, uh, program. you I used to see people that would be training on a fingerboard overhead, doing bar core overhead, doing pull ups, climbing, and then wondering maybe why their arms are sore when they put them overhead.

You know, it's just an awful lot of overhead there. so all that aside, the usual caveats, um, Yeah, you know, isometrics, single arm, scapular shrugs. If you can't Do any of these things I'm talking about, by the way, simply just put your feet on a chair or get some of these pull up bands that there are now.

These, you know, they're like, supposedly take like 60 kilos and that kind of thing. They're fantastic, so much better than the old, like, yellow resistance band that used to snap if you looked at it too hard. Um, so [00:18:00] there's bar walks. Um, so where you, you literally go along the bar, yep. Hand over hand, yep.

Turning hand each way, each time You do, you can spin on the spot, um, with two hands. So you you're turning 180 degrees, swapping from hand to hand. So you've pretty much always got two hands on. It's just that sort of second there where you're controlling it As you go around, you can hang on one arm and see how far you can spin around one way.

How far you can spin back the other way. Isometrics, two handed, uh, isometrics, one armed isometrics. If you're able to, um, my. It's all this variety. You know, this is just a bar There's so many things you can do with it. um, but wide would be, you're one of the things I think both with fingerboards. Um, I don't know why it never caught on with fingerboards. Um, the Anderson brothers did a great one that [00:19:00] it was chopped in half. It was two pieces. So you could set it. Yeah, yeah, you could set it up to your shoulder with a lot of elbow issues that I see are often people they've got a pull up bar in their doorway, or they've got a, um, yeah, a fingerboard with jugs on them.

That's what they're using. And it's quite a narrow range. And actually, we spent quite a lot of time in climbing out wide. So if you can get wide, get wide. Um, yeah, and all of that sort of suggestions I was just making there. Um, yeah. Yeah, you know do do those in a wider position as well if you can.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Super helpful. Yes. Adding variety to our hangs. And, uh, yeah, thank you for, uh, taking time to

talk about shoulders, 

given it is so foundational for overhead athletes staying with the upper body. are some

other common areas

that you see [00:20:00] as 

as let's say issues with, uh, I am thinking,

you know, elbows, wrists, uh, maybe backs,

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: neck, but I will let you drive it. And 

maybe

you can speak

with, uh, speak about common, common

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah, 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: and how can we deal.

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: I guess the most common You know aside from what we've spoken about will be elbows and fingers So elbows, I'm meaning more when people get tendinopathies either golfers, tennis, or the the the slightly lesser known sort of understood what's now kind of really becoming known as climbers elbow, which is a tendon for a different muscle, the brachialis, um, and funnily enough, one of the best things I find for people that start to feel these problems, [00:21:00] going back to what I said, Just a few minutes ago about the fact that the tendons like long duration holds, yeah, whether the load's not too great, but we're doing four, five, six repetitions of 30 to 45 seconds, that kind of thing.

Do some hangs in your wall. Come back to hangs again. Absolutely fantastic for elbows. Um, if you're able to hang wide with your palms facing away from you, Do 30 second hang there. Feet on the floor. Really easy. Nice and gentle. Nice and gentle. Go on. Sorry.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Quick question. what is the modern guidance hanging elbows slightly bent or

elbows completely straight and hanging on one's joints.

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: So, as [00:22:00] usual, with all my answers, um, yeah, variety, a bit of both. It's not the end of the world to hang on our connective tissue. you know, the clues in the name, in some ways, it's what connects one bit to the other. You know, I'd certainly, if I'm trying to relax I'd, I've Speaking to you. It's the late afternoon here in the UK.

I've been out trad climbing this morning. I'm trying to convert myself into a crack climber after 30 years of face climbing. It didn't go well today. I have to say, um, but I got to a rest point And I was like, I need to rest. I was absolutely the. Yeah, you know, at the end, um, and I I, I sacked onto my connective tissue.

There was very little activation going on there at all because I just needed to relax everything and get everything back that I possibly could. So. Again, variety, that's not the end of the world. If you do that all the time, if you start adding weight to yourself, weighted pull ups, weighted hangs, doing that, I would [00:23:00] suggest no, that's not the great idea.

But to get your body able to be robust and tolerant enough of periods of time hanging on its own connective tissue, Then you know, I was in a nice, at that point, kind of hand jam. Um, yeah, and so I just sort of dangled off it. Um, Didn't help. Sadly. So yes, you know all the positions and this is what I was going to say with this the idea of We do these hangs wide hand or wide hands palm facing away Then as wide as you can with palm facing towards you so the kind of the chin up position But wide and then work your way in Over three or four hand positions until you're kind of shoulder width apart and it covers all of the angles that your tendons Can be stressed under and it applies a nice load to them [00:24:00] essentially cut a long story short Prepares them for what's to come makes them more accepting of what is to come It's a process known as stress relaxation and they hopefully become less symptomatic I have more success with You Elbow tendon issues rather than the, the good scientific based exercises that we do do as Well, but I found that they're really not very effective unless we put this sustained, very light stretches, if you like under load into the tendons, not stretches, but load under tension prior to exercise and things like sorting out bent arm sleeping. Yeah, Um, it is one of the absolute big wins for particularly for golfers elbow. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: can you say that again? Bent

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, some people will lie flat on their back while they sleep and sort of not [00:25:00] move. Some like to sleep on their left. Some like to sleep on their right. No matter what you may see on social media, that kind of thing, it doesn't really matter. Sleep how's comfortable for you. That's okay.

You're not setting yourself up for anything terrible. Um, but if if you sleep with your elbows bent, you know, maybe your hand tucked under the pillow or under your body and your. On it, um, now, obviously we're not tensing our muscles in that position. Um, but you are applying load through the tension, through the tendon.

You are compressing it against the bones that, uh, that it's attached to. And you're also literally compressing it because you're bending your elbow. And when you bend your elbow, things get squashed. That's fine. Things are meant to get squashed, but if you've a sensitized tendon, then that will upset it.

And you'll wake up in the morning like a, I'd say like a Tyrannosaurus rex where people, yeah. their hand and their elbows are bent and they really have to go slowly to unbend it because it feels so [00:26:00] painful. Um,

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: I call it getting, uh, rigor mortis in the

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: yeah, yeah. And So my, my, my number one tip for this, because we also, you know, I was talking about, we need to get these basics in rather than the super swish scientific, what's the latest cool exercise.

Um, Yeah. Sleep is really important, you know, for, for healing, for, for everything, we know that um, and so if you say to somebody, okay, sleep with straight arms, that's going to help, but they only get one hour sleep because they've spent all night monitoring whether or not they're sleeping with straight arms, that's going to have a negative effect.

So what I like is, um, climbing tape down the back of the elbow. If you straighten your arm and apply climbing tape down the back of it. Yeah. Just to cross the elbow on both sides. When you start to bend your elbow, when you're asleep or half asleep, that kind of thing, you, you just detect the tension and it's often just enough to make you [00:27:00] think, Oh no, maybe I shouldn't be doing that.

And it might make the difference only between being fully bent. Yeah. And being halfway bent. Yeah. But that can often be enough to tip an elbow tendon from being very unhappy in the morning to feeling okay in the morning. And they are, they are touchy grumpy things. We need to be nice to them. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Andy, 

thanks for cutting through the noise. A few years ago, I was advised to stop sleeping 

on my side. I know I 

sleep on my side, and many listeners do as well, I'm sure. That told to start sleeping on my back and I tried

that and it was very uncomfortable because You know, 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: plus years of

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Being on your side, yeah.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: and then to have to, uh, if 

anything, it irritates my body more than

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: I sleep on my side now, but it's good to know that inherently none of 

these positions are terrible. specifically [00:28:00] what we do with our arms and how we position our

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: if it's to do with that. Yeah. Now there may be some again the usual caveat There may be some specific reason why for a short period of time It would be really, good idea if You can, you know, not do xyz and you can support yourself with pillows You know, so maybe for example, you might not want to sleep on your back for a reason well If you get like a a big pillow a bolster pillow or even just a normal pillow and put that behind your back So it will actually sort of stop you rolling onto your back that kind of thing. Um. Yeah, I've talked with patients so much about their sleep, sleeping positions, this type of thing. It's really it's one of my basics. you know, we need to get the basics in in order to have a successful rehab. And people can control maybe how much protein they're having, making sure they're getting enough energy through their food and this.

These are all things we can control. Sleep's really difficult. And it's quite an emotional subject and some people, you know, [00:29:00] really, really struggle and believe they're doing all the right things that they're being told to. Um, and still not sleeping well and then they're really stressed about it and then that makes the whole sleeping situation worse.

And so I normally say to people, you know, do what you can, um, but don't build your entire life around trying to ensure that you get to, you know, uh, uh. People would say was it, you know, it's good night's sleep. Um, it's something that we're often not too in control of 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Andy

again, uh Before we move on from this. So we touched on elbows, any other

areas to 

think about when it comes to elbows, because the like tennis elbow, golfer's 

elbow those tend to be, you know, 

huge, uh, problem areas for, uh, for

athletes. And then while we are on the subject, uh, maybe you can also touch upon any [00:30:00] other upper body issues that are

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah, yeah, but we'll we'll talk about fingers I think but yes golfer's elbow tennis elbow just to sort of discuss my my record For golfer's elbow for a patient presenting with golfer's elbow is 27 years that they'd had golfer's elbow for Obviously at a level that wasn't You know, impacting them painfully daily, but it had just been grumbling on every time they got to a certain level of activity, it would rear up, it would stop them and they'd back down, weren't hugely motivated. we don't all have to be, you know, they didn't want to be climbing, you know, nine a or whatever, this kind of thing. They were happy with, with what they were doing, but they'd notice whenever they tried this happened, blah, blah, blah. Um, and those. Those hangs, this nice, easy, yeah. And bedtime sleeping was the biggest turnover along with load management for them as well.

Now, my issue with [00:31:00] somebody that has it for that long, I was, we touched on before about tendons and tendon health. As we age, it's more difficult because it's not a very responsive tissue. There are. Differences that change really in, in what's known as the extracellular matrix, the fluid and supportive structure around the tendon rather than the tendon itself.

Changes in all sorts of different. ways and it's, it's, it's that and then if we've got, you know, an injured tendon or a tendon that's not operating happily for that amount of time, that potentially sets that person up for more. Problems as, as the age, I think. So it's important with tendinopathies, they can grumble along, but we need to get them seen to um, I have, Um, tennis elbow, um, my, my approach to that is different.

It's golfers elbow tends to be quite uncomfortable. It's, it's not a nice [00:32:00] feeling. It's not the tennis elbow can feel like somebody stabbing you in the back of the arm. it's, it's, a very, very different beast. Um, causes a lot of worry. you know, it will be, it will be discomfort pain to the, point where you, you, you have to stop what you're doing.

You know, whereas golfers, a lot of people can grit their teeth and, and, and bear through It They probably shouldn't, but they do. Um, But strangely the, the common extensor tendon, which is what causes it. Um, I've, I've been, if you like, fortunate enough to, to, to see inside the human body. It's tiny. It's, it's, it's, it's this tiny, tiny little thing that gives us so much, you know, the, the amount of pain and discomfort we get from it is, is disproportionate.

Um, That's an important message. It's also an important message because it's very common. it affects a lot of people at work and therefore it's been studied a lot to see if we can you know, figure out what's going on. if it gets embedded and it, and it's, [00:33:00] it's there, the average it seems to last for is nine months and then it goes.

It, there does seem to be strong evidence that suggests it. Will go quicker with treatment or at least people feel more able to be in control of it To learn what upsets it and what doesn't and and to work with it in some ways which can almost be, as important so for example in My book I did put in Golfers elbow didn't put in tennis elbow, It's very individual. It's very finicky. It's a it's a, it's a tricky beast to deal with. Uh, but the overall message is is quite not positive because not everybody wants to hear that they might be stuck with this for nine months, but it will end, Whereas, as we touched on before, golfers seems to be, it can just go and go and go forever.

Um, if you don't treat it, whereas, [00:34:00] yeah, tennis elbow, it will go. It's like if you've ever known anybody with a frozen shoulder and that type of thing, you know, a deeply unpleasant condition. Can take years to work through the phases, although that in itself is becoming a bit, people are not sure about that anymore.

Not about whether it will, it will end, but whether what these phases are and where they are and what they mean. Um. But Yeah, it will end at some point, you know, that, that's the message. Um, so yeah, that, that tendons, these hangs, build them into your, into your strength work, build them into your warmup. This isometric work as you age is just as important as going to the gym and working a muscle and tendon through range.

Yeah. So if you like doing pull ups, if you do pull ups three times a week, make one of those sessions, maybe a lock off session, a hang session. Yeah, rather than just pull ups all the time, keep those tendons as healthy as you're keeping your muscles. Um, and, [00:35:00] yeah, fingers then, the, other biggie. We do know, um, climbers, and what we do with our fingers is asking a lot of them.

Can they adapt? Yes. Do we often ask too much of them too soon before they've had time to adapt? Yes. Um, but if we compare to things like long distance running, we know, that if you're a long distance runner who has progressed appropriately, you will have more cartilage in your knee than somebody who isn't active. you know, so the, you know, the joints, the cartilage and such like, the connective tissue, the, tendons, the ligaments, they all become more robust and stronger. There seems to be about a seven year, Um, time span. That if you've been consistently and regularly climbing, you know, and, and climbing so that we're challenging ourselves and our hands and our fingers, [00:36:00] um, then a lot of injuries tail off at that point, you know, your classic pulley ruptures and such like, and that type of thing, uh, because the, the tissues and the hand itself has just got robust enough now to deal with, uh, What you are doing to it.

Um, it, it's happier dealing with that. Um, and it take, takes seven years, it, it would appear, you know, to get to that kind of level, which is interesting in itself, isn't it You know, it's a long time of tissue adaptation. Um, but then as we age, as touched on before, aging is a process. Although this is all about aging with optimism and staying, you know, what we are doing is staying ahead of the curve.

You know, aging does happen. Joint spaces do naturally narrow our ability to recover does naturally reduce Drop off a cliff not that type of thing But it does and so we need to respond to what our fingers [00:37:00] are maybe telling us and if you're waking up the day After climbing and your fingers are stiff.

They feel swollen the classic, you know, can you touch in what's called a hook grip? Yeah Can you bend your fingers down to touch the palm the top of the palm of the hand and if you can normally do that? Now you can't yeah, your fingers need some rest get that? range back because that's swelling inside the joint That's a response to the joint being overloaded we seem to have Enough evidence now as well to suggest that, you know, crimping compressive forces into the joints of that kind of thing can Speed up processes, such as arthritis, that. type of thing, if it's done in a way that is overloading the finger, um, or the fingers, it's not necessarily, you know, this is your destiny, if you climb, you will get horribly painful [00:38:00] fingers as you age, but there does seem to be a correlation between that, I see people maybe who have manual jobs, and they love climbing, Um, and it yeah, it's it's a lot to ask of our hands.

You know, they, they struggle a lot, often tree surgeons, high taxes, workers, you know, people like that. Um, so as we age, what I'm doing is reinventing myself as a steep sport climber, getting on the two furs and that type of thing, uh, away from my happy place of face climbing?

on the crimps and also in, in trad as, as a crack climber.

Um, am I, does It mean I'm staying away from face climbing because I think It's going to cause me terrible problems as I get older? No, I'm still going to do that. Am I going to do a bit less of it and introduce some more variety into my climbing? Yes. what [00:39:00] happens if I'm getting more into the twofer style of climbing? I've got to get strong and robust all over. Same with crack climbing. Both of these things to me are like wrestling a bear. They're just such hard work. You know, that crack today, I was saying I had to hang and just like, whoa, recover. It wasn't particularly because my forearm was tired. It's my whole body was tired and needed to recover.

So it encourages you to, to get all round robust and strong, which is what we need to do. Get down the gym, um, that kind of thing. So yeah, if we continue to just do the same as we've always done, that will be different. And I can't remember if I, if I said this in the, in the first episode or not, but it always bears repeating.

If you've got to the stage of life where you've, you've hopefully got some more time and you've maybe even retired, that You don't have to stick to the seven day week. If you usually climbed three times in a week and [00:40:00] did a couple of training sessions, but you're now feeling, well, my fingers are sore, my knees sore, this is, you know, whatever it might be.

Try taking that to nine days. Yeah. and just add in an extra or whatever kind of works for you. You will not drop off a cliff. You will have better quality. Um, training sessions, you will recover fully and get all the gains between, you know, if your body is telling you it's struggling, that means you're not getting your gains.

Yeah, if you're still training or you're not maintaining, um, and if you can adapt things, I think the, the, you know, the whole seven day calendar, et cetera, et cetera, I think is from like the Mayans 5, 000 years ago, who figured out the lunar cycle and 31 days or 28 days, all this kind of stuff, that's absolutely of no relevance to your body.

Yeah, it doesn't the most common issue I see actually in people's training [00:41:00] plans and where have I gone wrong is that they believe when they turn a page in their training diary, it's somehow all disappeared that that last seven days has just gone. So you'll get somebody who'd like the climbing on Saturday and Sunday, their training diary finishes on a Sunday.

So they turn over the page, what we're going to do on Monday. Oh, it's a whole new week. I'm going to train. Oh, whatever. Well, maybe that should be a rest day. Because actually, if you look back to last week, you've just. You know, done quite a lot in the back end of the week. So you're freer to, you know, to pick and choose and experiment and allow more recovery.

Because recovery is where the gains happen.

Mm. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: thing 

I want to ask you about, uh, fingers. So for sure, myself, many like me who have been on the 

rocks for two decades or more or maybe less, we find that unfortunately we [00:42:00] have ended up with what I like to call like, um, Frankenstein fingers, you know, swollen knuckles. And, And, also, yes, the ability to make. And even 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: So what I have found in my case is that 

over the years, we're doing some rehab 

work with my fingers. have less.

Pain episodes knuckles. I used to have painful knuckles and inability to straighten my 

fingers completely sometimes. I have now, I think, reached a point of stasis where I don't have pain.

I can climb regularly. I am not always, uh, brutalizing 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: on 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: things. Yeah.

so I don't have pain, I also have lost that 

full 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Mm. [00:43:00] Yeah, 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: my to you 

is. Are there any long term implications of 

people who have swollen fingers, whatnot. Is there a possibility that now it seems stable, say 20 years, 30 years down the line, they could just become a lot worse. 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: I was with you all The way there and so you said it could become a lot worse. Um, could issues that we see Normally as we age, be affected by having had, say, synovitis for a long time in a finger. And that doesn't just mean that the the, the finger's got a big knuckle. I'm talking about that pain that, that, you know, yeah.

That real feeling of stiffness and such like in there that we get with it because the, the, the synovitis, if it's true, [00:44:00] synovitis, the. The capsule of the joint increases in size and that that that really doesn't go away after we've got rid of the itis. Sinusitis is the inflammation and it's that inflammatory process that is inside the joint getting when it gets irritated, when it gets overloaded, when we don't allow enough recovery that can definitely affect the cartilage long term and is seen as a precursor towards arthritis, which is an entirely natural. Part of aging between that happening faster than it should essentially or progressing quicker than it should so we get age Inappropriate signs now, you know wherever you are with your fingers again going back to like we're saying with the shoulders And such like before Not everybody can get that Fingers down, you know, find your benchmark. Where are you at? Yeah, monitor from there, but it's important to do. Um, [00:45:00] speaking to a 25 year old, um, the other day who had ended up showing their hands to a rheumatologist. Um, this person is a setter, a route, a route setter, um, super strong climber. Um, And they'd said, Oh, gosh, you know, you've got the hands of a 60 year old.

Um, and so he has the nodules on his, uh, on his end knuckles that we often see. um, big knuckles, can't fully straighten his finger. I mean, there's, There's work he needs to do. Definitely. Um, it's an ongoing discussion around that. Just because you've ended up with big knuckles. Yeah, this can be bony adaptation.

It can be a can be a response that the as I was talking before about the connective tissue building up over like seven years of Making itself bigger and stronger. We know if [00:46:00] you, Um, scan the bone density of a tennis player, that their dominant arm that they use, yeah, we'll have a much greater bone density than the left.

There's similar being done in fences who really their, their lead leg that they slam down on the floor and that powerful, powerful leg is, has a greater bone density than the leg that's trailing. Um, yeah, you know, it's not necessarily. Arthritis might look like it, but it's bony overgrowth in order to reinforce the finger and strengthen the finger.

Um, but, if this is, you know, that, that, that was, that, that, that root setter in, in that situation, be as kind to your fingers as you can be. These, these are our tools. Um, that We want to use and we want to, you know, you wouldn't, if you were really keen cyclist and, and they've got a super swish time trial bike, [00:47:00] yeah, they, those, those people, they, they, they wash that bike, they wax it, they oil it after every ride, they will not go out on it in the rain. Yeah, they've got this amazing thing and with, with us And yeah, for our fingers, we should treat them the same. Yeah, we should be super super kind to them. we want them to, perform, don't we? We want them to do their stuff. And if we're hammering them, they're not going to do that. Um, so yeah, you know, ongoing discomfort in a finger, you know, that doesn't settle after a couple of days.

If you've had a super hard session, you know, red pointing something or achieving a, yeah, you know, some goal or whatever that kind of thing. Yeah. okay, we can have a little bit of soreness and deal with that. It should settle. Reasonably quickly though. And it's, it's, if it doesn't, and we get these chronic issues that go on, that's when we really need to, you know, yeah.

Get help basically. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Andy, I can't help, but, uh, But just love what 

you [00:48:00] just said 

about, uh, being

kind 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: To our 

fingers. And I 

think that honestly applies to the rest of our 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: I

had a friend who had this, 

uh, a surfer friend who had this, uh, specific body gratitude practice, he would wake up every day and he would, uh, 

you know, say things and he would literally talk to 

each of his, let's say his 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Limbs, his body, his, his, his arms, 

shoulders, legs, hips, and he would talk to them individually on how much he loved them, how much he, how much gratitude he felt for them for the incredible allowances. They provided him in being able to surf well and just live well. So, 

yes, we need to be kind to 

our body. We need to not just go [00:49:00] out and,

run hard 

or

climb hard or surf

hard and just forget about those things. we need to actually come back, and realize that these

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah, 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: And we need to keep those tools, uh, rested and polished. Okay. I'm going off here, coming back. 

Uh, so before we move on, any last tactical 

you want to make about the upper 

body before we move down to the lower 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: to, And and, and definitely as we are said aging with optimism, we are looking here at, you know, uh, fighting back, staying ahead of the curve, you know, beating this thing for as long as we can, all, all of that good stuff. but you know, aging as we come back to is inevitable. If you're going to bring in something new, yeah. do that slowly and carefully, you know, even more so than when you were younger. Um, and that. can be [00:50:00] something You can just be walking into the crag now that the, you know, the weather's got better rather than going to the climbing wall, you know, and you haven't put a pack on your back and done an hour's walking and that kind of thing for a long time.

This could be any part of the body, really, but I'm using that as an example. Um, and you always used to be able to do that when you were younger. Fine. That's great. Yeah, but maybe now we need to go and have a practice walk. Yeah, just go and Yeah, See how we're feeling see how things are going that kind of thing you will be able to do it You will be you know likely be able to get back there and it. will all be fine But don't just shock your body by suddenly putting 15 kilos of trad equipment on your back or whatever Maybe not that heavy But yeah putting a trad pack on and going hiking up a mountain when you haven't done that for six months So just yeah Bring things in slowly. The body doesn't need much to, to warn it and prepare it of what's to come. Yeah, [00:51:00] so I'm not saying you need to plan a three month fitness, whatever, you know, this kind of thing around it. But just get out for a couple of hikes, Yeah. Um, before you go and do it and then hike and climb.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Yeah, again, such an astute observation. 

And I think 

that it would behoove a lot of us to not let our ego

drive our decisions. 

So

yes, maybe in our twenties and thirties, you know, we could just go out for an 

impromptu 10 

mile run and 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: and that was okay. Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: kind of okay with it, you know, but now one knows that uh, One is about to start a new kind of activity, you know, maybe be more patient than even what might think is 

warranted. err on the side of 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: to not 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: That's [00:52:00] a nice, yeah, that's a nice way of putting it. Yeah. Yeah. Just, just give it a little, little notice. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Because I think I think Andy, what happens is, and I 

think I can 

speak for many, is

that exactly this will happen, which is one comes from a period of hibernation, and then we'll go out and like, uh, some sort of intense activity, right? Intense run, climbing session, and 

then suddenly the body is not going to 

cope with it. And then, and then instead of learning that, that crucial error about preparation, 

we will

find

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Mm. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: and tell ourselves that. I'm, I'm,

old 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: can't do that anymore.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: this. And then, and then we will maybe not go and do that again for a

while until, until, you 

know, short term memory. 

And we'll go back and like, uh, you know, uh, pound our head against the wall 

again. But I think, I think the lesson really, what you're pointing 

out is so important, which is, [00:53:00] you know, prepare well and. the body will handle it, but just 

allow more 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. More grace is, this is lovely, isn't it? Yeah. Love. Love your fingers. Give your body some grace. Yeah. . Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Okay. Okay. Good. Awesome. Awesome. 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Hmm. Okay.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: bit. Uh, again, we are sticking with, uh, different,

uh, important parts of 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Um, 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: Andy, perhaps to our lower body, So

maybe we can start top down. cover what areas are more important that athletes come to you for. 

It could be hips, glutes, knees, ankles.

We can start wherever you want. 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: so I, I, I'm trying to think of sort of like a theme. So I do get a lot of knee pain, which is where we were going with the knee pain and, [00:54:00] and, you know, things like, um, you know, simple interventions into the knees can be really good. And this is, if we're looking at. You know, somebody's got the knee tendinopathy pain that that coming down walking downhill or jumping off the boulder wall and you get that really sharp, painful nip in the knee as it passes through a certain range and that kind of thing.

And again, super simple wall squats, that. type of thing. Um, you know, holding working really hard, but pain free, just change the position of your foot. Yeah, so it was what we call the shin angle. So if you imagine you're in a wall squat with your back against the wall, your thighs parallel with the floor, And then your shin vertical.

So that's a vertical shin angle. If you have your feet a little in front, that will actually take some load off the knee. So if you find it painful in a wall sit, then do That Just [00:55:00] take your feet out to the front a bit, to the part where it isn't painful. Spend some time there. Pain free get jelly legs. yeah, really really work those legs hard Yeah, so hold it working almost to failure that type of thing And can be super simple and can really really help with with that for a couple of reasons One is it it can really help the recruitment and coordination of all the muscles insert into the knee That type of exercise the wall squat where you're holding and sitting there in a position for ages until, yeah, it, it, it works its way through the, whole team, yeah, and the weak link will be found, yeah, and made to work And made to get stronger, um, it also has an effect on tendons, come back to tendons again, uh, it's that long period of holding, yeah, that tendons respond to well, but, you know, what's behind that, and what I see often is, [00:56:00] um, hip Issues, single leg stand issues, and the knee is a little bit like the, this is what I was just thinking of what, what's the theme? Yes, I see a lot of sore knees, but actually, we often end up coming back to the hip. And I'm a Big believer that there's no point in just working the knee. If you're not going to work the rest of the system and, and that even comes through onto the other side, you know, we should be able to stand on one leg and have balance and control.

Yes, but we should also have balance in our, in our pelvis. It should stay level. You know, if you think of a runner as they run those two bony bits that you have on the front of your hips, you know, that they should stay level, give or take, obviously not, not perfect. Yeah, but we shouldn't see it. Big changes happening there. and I often see, I work with obviously here talking about climbing or what have you, but I work with athletes from all sorts of sports, [00:57:00] um, and see problems with single leg stand around the hip and the hip control and things like the glute medius, um, muscle on the side, or even accessing proper glute. Max, um, and I don't mean sleepy glutes, I don't mean glutes that have turned off and this kind of thing, but it's people's movement patterns that they have gone to and they may be for whatever reason.

loading the knee more than they should. So you look at them in squats, you look at them in jumps, you look at them in hinge actions and see how they're moving and you will see people really favoring the knee and staying off the hip or sometimes the other way. They're trying to do everything through the hip, and not getting onto the knee. So it's important to look through the whole system. Um, I often find, yeah, I found like high level runners and you ask them to do some single leg control work. All over the place. Yeah, you know, wobbling about finding it really, really hard [00:58:00] work. Um, and the knee is a little bit, you know, it's in the middle, isn't it? and if somebody has an issue at the hip, that can often show at the knee. And if also, likewise, with that contact with the floor through the foot and the ankle, if we've got a problem down there, that too can also show at the knee. So a lot of knee issues are actually It's to do with the whole team rather than just one specific thing.

So, you know, great If you get some help with a, with a knee issue. If it's all about the knee and it's all isolating the knee and the rest of the team is not getting hit, then, you know, yeah, you might want to look broader than that. And it can be as simple as in the wall squat. Pick your heels off the floor while you're doing it to work the calves.

Yeah, that can really get the calves shaking. That's, Uh, you know, quite a really hard exercise. Yeah, it [00:59:00] doesn't need to be hugely different. If you. take one foot off the floor in a wall squat, you will be challenging the hip a lot more because it's now having to maintain stability through there. I do have an exercise that's probably like one of my favorites for the the ankle, calf, knee, hip, complex, if you like, system.

Uh, it'd be quite hard to even start describing it verbally. I may send it over to you. I have it videoed because it's one that I prescribe to patients and such like maybe your post.

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: or feel free to

be more animated because we will put this on

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Okay. 

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: likely. And then later we can also supplement and add any other, uh, information to the show 

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: Right. Okay. Um, so I would, Yeah. I wouldn't be mic'd up though would be the issue. I'm going to try, [01:00:00] try And describe it, but it essentially, we're going to work in a position that I call the the active stance, active knee. Well, I don't just call it that. That's what It's known as. And I say to somebody, imagine, um, you, you're going to stop somebody coming past you. Yeah, you've got your friends going to try and run around you. Yeah. And you go to that position, don't you? Where your knees are a little bit bent, the weight's in the front of your foot.

You're ready to react. Yeah. You kind of like good to go. and it's that sort of position, but on one leg. Yep. We take the Other leg behind us can be just resting on its toes.

You may even want to lift it off the floor. It's fine to use a wall for balance or have a chair there for balance, that type of thing, but we really take the whole of the body. Over the front of the foot. When people, I ask people sometimes, and this is another sort of little test I will do, I'll say, okay, bring your weight forwards over the foot. How do they do that Some people kind of bend [01:01:00] backwards, yeah, and try and drive their hips forwards, and they don't actually take any of their body weight forwards. Other people go the other way, and they stick their butt out backwards, and they bend forwards, yeah. Whereas what we actually want is if you, looked at yourself from the side, your ankle, your knee.

Yeah, your, your chest and your, your head are all over the front foot. Yeah, so everything's over the front foot If we get to that point, the heel should just lift a little as well, which is what we want. So we're on that, forefoot and we're working the calf balance control, that kind of thing. Then in that position, Place your other hand that might, that's not on a chair or what have you, on the front of your chest to detect if you're bending forwards or not and then sink down as if somebody is pressing you on the top of your head and squashing yourself down.

So we're going to bend now at the, knee. yeah. we've gone into that really active position. All our weight is over that foot [01:02:00] and then you bend at the knee and there is nowhere that, you know, no compensations, no adaptations. There's nowhere to hide. Yeah, it just hits that whole. Yeah, that whole like that whole complex. So there's hip stability going on there, but this, that particular, when You then sink down in a straight up position, we'll just absolutely hammer the quads and the, um, and the And the knee. Um, yeah. and I'm you know, we, we go through phases. I think as physios, as you learn more, realize what you don't know, try to learn everything, realize that you can't learn everything we pick and take sometimes Physios can become all about one thing.

They find a system that they think is the answer to everything. You spend a while there and then realize that no one system can be the answer to everything. and you sort of pick and choose [01:03:00] from, from different things. And where I'm at at the moment in my development as a, as a physio, which is changing all the time is this more global kind of point of view because the body is global.

It's a complex. Mesh of numerous already complex systems that are all interacting with each other all the time and a sore knee Can sometimes just be about a sore knee But we want to be looking elsewhere and it works both ways if you if you are strengthening the ankle and calf and the hip That's offloading the knee because they're able to take more and do more and so that can help the symptoms and help things settle But we're also strengthening the knee as well, which makes it more able To do more.

Um, and so it's kind of, you know, a double approach, really

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: ~Andy, thank you for. Taking ~

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: ~to describe ~

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: ~this time and making, making the effort to describe this, uh, ~

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: ~should, should I, should I take the headphones off and just sort of go over it and show it over that we are. Why am I better off sending a decent ~

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: ~Why don't we ~

squadcaster-6ebe_1_03-21-2025_161406: ~Yeah, yeah. Okay. ~

kush--he-him-_1_03-21-2025_101405: ~yeah. Why not?~

~Why not? We do that for a second. Yes. Andy, this was great. Actually, I think that your computer mic and headset might be better than what you have. Because if I just look at the VU meter, you were sounding great. And I think this might, might, yeah, no, I honestly, maybe that was the simple, simple solvers to just, it could be that it could be some particular setting with, uh, either way now, now you're, and you know what, I, I honestly, like I interview all these, hate to say, I had to say it, but like, uh, let's say. athletes don't care enough, rightly so about tech and they will often not have a headset.~

~And I, I. Seem to capture the audio fine. So let's, let's, uh, stick with this and this will allow you to be maybe more Thanks for thanks for that great demo. And one thing that I have only understood in the last couple of years that first I want to say that i'm glad you took the opportunity to go through the whole chain and talk about like are things that folks seem to miss the most? And I found that I was compensating for bad knees with my hips because I would do all those regular drills as as learned with let's say practicing squats or doing even things like, uh, single leg deadlifts or lunges. But I found that there was a subtle problem with my form is that I was overly relying on my hips and glutes and not at all adequately on my ankles and my knees. So I was confused for a while where I would find that here I am, you know, uh, diligent rehabber and going through these exercises regularly. But when I would actually go on a tough approach, scrambling over rocks with a backpack, I would not find the balance and the strength over. So I only just, I think, learned that ankles were not strong or mobile enough and that my knees were also weak.~

~So I've just started incorporating those things. So again, I learned late and I'm hoping that others can learn from my late Late, uh, belated wake up. So are there a couple of things Andy that people listening can learn identify, uh, sore spots their form where they are Not listening to the entire chain and maybe like you said using the hips more to allow No, i'm done. Yeah, that was that's what I was saying. Yeah Again, Andy, so astute. I feel that two things people can do right away. One is, I know that, again, I was this, uh, slightly more, uh, proud person going to yoga classes back in the day. And, I would listen but not completely heed the, the instructor's cautionary words on form when, when we would bend over and I would be like, well, I can do the three-legged pose. Why should I use a block? Because I think I was missing the point. I was compensating by bending too far on the side and not really engaging the right, the right body parts. So I think that, yes, I think a lot of us. Will be able to achieve some outcome, but not achieve it in the desired way. And I think, I think that form is just maybe as important as end result. And one last thing I was, The second thing I would say, I think, I think, uh, can come to the rescue where I think it is so. helpful to be able to video oneself and just, just look at it ourselves and maybe show it to one's physio or one's coach. And sometimes those, those, um, those mistakes are so apparent. What we can't feel, we can see on video. So Badass, Andy, so amazing. Before we move on and talk about, let's say, preventive maintenance uh, picture and a couple other topics, any final parts of a lot of this tactical advice you are sharing around spots up and down the body. That's sound advice, work the body keep an eye on sore spots. Andy, quick time check, this has been amazing so far. I know we spoke about trying to wrap up in today's session, but is there any chance we can schedule more session? talk about, so the topics I feel we should cover, and of course, please chime in, are preventive maintenance. So talk about like, uh, what a regular exercise schedule, et cetera, could look like. We just touched on that. We should talk about how our Maintenance and training should shift through the decades. So, you know, perhaps what we were doing at twenties and thirties and how we were doing them to adapt with the decades. Then I thought we could talk about, say a bit of load management and also navigating pain. And then, yeah. And then talk about, let's say big picture. And mindset shift aging with optimism and maybe what separates, you know, people who fall into, I can't do this anymore. Mindset versus people who continue thriving and yeah, and maybe have some closing thoughts around, uh, all of these topics put together. So yeah. Wondering if a chance we can meet again and Andy, before we go. I would love it if you could point to these valuable resources you have created. I know you have a website and you have written a book on self rehab and you also have, you also have a couple other, uh, great things. So would you just talk about that for a minute before we end this call? Amazing, Andy. We will be sure to put those resources on the show notes also because you do provide. individual consultation. If people sought to work with you directly, you have, know you're very busy, but do you have slots available in the future? if so, how do they reach out to you? ~ Amazing, Andy, absolutely. I, yeah, I. You have so much wisdom to share [01:04:00] that people can tap into directly. ~Thank you for, well, well, not, not to, not to make you blush anymore, but really in this day and age where people seem to, you know, people's breadth of knowledge is like, I don't know. A mile wide and an inch deep. It is, it is certainly,~ uh, yeah, it is great to actually find somebody like you for this podcast, who is, uh, who, who can go deep into these topics. Any, thanks again for this chat today and we'll meet again.

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