#62 One Mile at a Time: The Healing Power of Movement and How You Can Fight Mental Decline

“Get people outside. Let them walk, let them move. And if they can’t, do it in a wheelchair. Fresh air and movement—at any level—still have the power to bring joy, connection, and even a little bit of who they once were.”​

In this episode of The Ageless Athlete Podcast, I sit down with ultra-endurance athlete, coach, and bestselling author Travis Macy to explore one of the most powerful and personal lessons from his life: how movement, the outdoors, and adventure are helping his father, Mark Macy, live well despite an Alzheimer’s diagnosis.

Travis has competed in some of the toughest endurance races on the planet, including The Eco-Challenge—where he and his father raced together in Fiji, pushing past limits that most would have thought impossible. But now, he’s applying that same endurance mindset to something even more profound: keeping his father active, engaged, and thriving for as long as possible.

Through this conversation, we uncover why exercise isn’t just about performance—it’s about healthspan, and how movement, human connection, and time spent outside can be game-changers for those facing cognitive decline.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

🏃‍♂️ How movement and outdoor activity have helped extend his father’s healthspan despite Alzheimer’s

• "Has being active outside enhanced his healthspan? Hell yeah. Number one is human connection, and number two is moving outside."

🧠 Why exercise can temporarily boost cognition, even in advanced stages of Alzheimer’s

• “When my dad exercises, you can see his cognition go up. He remembers more, cracks jokes—it brings something back.”

🌲 The power of nature to bring back connection and identity

• “Even as Alzheimer’s progresses, the essence of who someone is can still come out. When we get out hiking, even if it’s slow, even if I have to hold his hand, you see the spark—it’s still there.”

🚀 Why pushing boundaries—whether in adventure or illness—matters more than ever

• “For the last six years, we’ve been pushing up against the boundaries of what’s possible, finding ways for him to stay active and engaged.”

References Mentioned in the Episode

📖 Books by Travis Macy: 

• The Ultra Mindset: An Endurance Champion’s 8 Core Principles for Success in Business, Sports, and Life 
• A Mile at a Time (with Mark Macy) 

🎧 The Travis Macy Show 

📺 Eco-Challenge: The World’s Toughest Race → Watch on Amazon Prime

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Transcript

Ageless Athlete - Travis Macy
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Kush: [00:00:00] Travis, I've been reading your book, one mile at a time over the last month. You know, I like to read books like kind of old fashioned, you know, back to back, like cover to cover and it, it, it almost feels like, uh, you know, I have been, um, Sitting in this living room with you, hearing you, uh, share your stories.

And now you are here in person with me. So it kind of feels a bit like a dream.

Travis: Oh, well, thanks, man. Thanks for, thanks for reading it. Yeah, it, you know, a mile at a time. That's, that's my, uh, most recent book. And, um, the first one was the Ultra Mindset, uh, almost 10 years ago now. But, uh, yeah, a book is, uh, labor of love. Um, you know, a lot of time, a lot of effort and, uh, you know, and you got to hope that, that it makes a difference.

Uh, yeah. for some people. So, um, thanks a lot for reading it. I appreciate it. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: It's making a difference to me and the way I think about many things. And, uh, I think it will do the same [00:01:00] for, uh, others who are yet to read it. as well. So yeah, I encourage everybody to go. I know you've written many books and I would love to dive into them, but at least this one, one mile at a time is a fantastic book written by you.

Uh, deep heartfelt and, uh, so authentic, 

Travis: was just going to say what you said, it's making you rethink how you think about some things to tell me. I'm curious, like what, what topic, you know, it's a lot of, it's kind of a memoir. It talks about endurance sports, of course, the eco challenge, um, you know, talks about my dad's, Journey with Alzheimer's.

Um, what, uh, what has it made you think about? Just out of curiosity? 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: yeah, great question. Uh, you know, all of those things. 

Travis: Mm. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: If I was to really pick on one, it is relationship with family 

Travis: Mm. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: and the bonds that, uh, we share with [00:02:00] the ones who are the closest to us, the relationship that, uh, we have with our parents, and, uh, sometimes, uh, even things like, passing of the torch.

Travis: Mm. Mm. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: So there are many themes there. Uh, yeah, I, I am not distanced enough from the book yet because It is so fresh, so I haven't, I haven't, uh, organized my thoughts yet, but those would be the resonant themes. Uh, one thing that I will say that certainly also stands out in a grander theme that many people, when they think about outdoor sports.

They think about, uh, even, even the kind of sports you do, you know, out there in the yonder, in the wild, uh, let's say, uh, slogging away, they think of these sports [00:03:00] as, uh, let's say individual pursuits. But what really, really elevates in your book is how this is a family thing. And how you do, and, and perhaps your family is, uh, maybe a bit more special than others, given this, uh, given, given how all of you to some level partake, but even then, I think that the theme of togetherness, I think to me, that is profound.

Before we go too deep into, into that area. Travis, I would, uh, for those of us who don't know who you are, please tell us who are you, Travis? And, uh, what do you do?

Travis: ~Mm. Oh man. Who am I? What do I do? Those are, those are big questions Kush. I feel like, uh, you know, ~it's, it's funny. I feel like I could answer those things maybe easier at age 20 when, And when I really, you know, man, a lot of that identity, it was. Uh, it was directly tied with, with the achievement, the podium, the kind of, like you said, the individual [00:04:00] aspiration, uh, of, of endurance sports, you know, I could have easily said, Oh, I'm a pro athlete or, you know, something like that.

Um, uh, You know, I think I'm proud that maybe to say the answers become, um, bit more dynamic, even if, if uncertain, uh, you know, so don't know who am I? I'm a guy I'm, uh, you know, I'm, uh, how old am I? I'm almost going to be 42 in a minute here, you know, guy living in Salida, Colorado, a little rural town.

Um, you know, most of my day and really the, the focus of my life is on, um, raising and supporting my family. My kids are. 12 and 14. And that's where a lot of my, you know, time and effort, uh, goes towards them and, you know, towards my wife, Amy. And, uh, a lot, like you said, with those transitions, I put as much as I can into now kind of, um, supporting my parents, you [00:05:00] know, and they still support me. as well. But it also, there's been a big, especially with, with my dad, a big transition and in our relationship, you know, as he, people may have seen on the, on the EcoChallenge there, that was 2019, you know, he had Alzheimer's, but was still quite capable and, you know, did almost all of the EcoChallenge adventure race. Things have changed a lot. You know, he's at an advanced stage of, of Alzheimer's and the, the support is very much on and in the moment and, you know, help with, uh, dressing and eating and bathing and, uh, toileting. Um, know, all that. And, and my mom does most of that, but it's, it's something I do as much as I can.

And, um. It's extremely hard, but I also think it's, uh, it's really important. Um, you know, professionally, uh, most of my income these days is, uh, coaching adult endurance athletes, doing ultra running, mountain biking, multi sport, uh, ski [00:06:00] mo, lead challenge, et cetera. These, those are all things that I've done, you know, uh, often at a, at a pretty high level.

Um, and I love, love to pass that on and, uh, and, um, know, give back. And, and, you know, like I said, it's also my source of income. Um, I write books. So that's part of my job too. Uh, I host a podcast called the Travis Macy show. You were a guest on that Kush. Um, really enjoyed, uh, doing that with you. Um, I also do some, uh, some speaking as well.

Um, and, uh, and I'm starting a new podcast. I was ready for, uh, you know, I have ADHD and, and I'm kinda, I'm high stimulation, high intensity. I like not. Uh, so the new podcast is, is focused on Schemo, uh, ski mountaineering and, and that's a sport that I, um, that I love and I think is growing in momentum. Uh, it's going to be in the Olympics in 2026 and, uh, you know, it's a very niche but I really want to, [00:07:00] you know, especially support that community, give voice to some of these young athletes who are aspiring, you know, it could be to the Olympics or to other things and just kind of, being part of that community.

So, you know, all of. Um, some of my roles and I think even, even more so recently, I'm someone who's just like really interested in, uh, human connection. Um, really interested in, uh, in spirituality and really interested in, like you said, um, You know, whereas in the past, these sports that I've done, the adventure racing, the ultra running, whatever, you know, it was the grind.

It was the slog. It was the competition. It was like the battle against the elements, you know, uh, the prize money, the podium, the sponsorship, you know. That was great at that phase. And now it's like, how can these things be used for human connection for community, uh, for spirituality, connecting with something bigger? [00:08:00] Uh, those are kind of all things that are, you know, that are resonating with me, uh, now. So yeah, those are all, those are all parts of me. Uh, you know, maybe I'll add one more. I'm a person who's, who's, um, you know, grappling with, uh, really a, a TBI, a traumatic brain injury. I had this concussion in, in about six months ago like, man, it, it like, it messed me up and it rocked me to the core.

My functionality, like I couldn't drive, I could barely work. I could not sit here and do a video call with you. Uh, I couldn't. I couldn't, you know, many of basic daily functions were taken away for, you know, sort of a few months and, you know, I'm kind of coming back. I can do?

most things. and that's great.

And, and, you know, like, in the last 6 months, like, it's been a Big piece of my story. A lot of significant mental health challenge. A lot of, um, depression, anxiety, and you know, those kind of, you can't do, know you've had [00:09:00] injuries as a climber, as a surfer, et cetera. Like, man, these things, they're big parts of our life.

All of a sudden we can't do them. Like, Ooh, that takes some, uh, takes some reckoning, you know, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Wow. Uh, well, uh, thanks for sharing all that. I've certainly had some injuries, but I haven't had the kind of traumatic injury that you had, Travis, where not only were you not able to do these sports that keep you alive, they took away a lot of your essential. day to day functionality. How 

Travis: it was 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: did, how did you get hurt?

And, uh, where are you now with your, uh, injury?

Travis: Yeah, it was a, it was a bike crash, you know, typical, you know, in the world of mountain biking, sometimes you crash, And, and this one, um, [00:10:00] I was going fast, but I wasn't in, in my own mind, at least Kush, I am risk averse. I do not push limits. I do not, you know, I'm not catching air. I'm not like, you know, if I'm not, you know, Like I don't ride it.

Um, you know, and, and so I was, I was riding well within my ability level, but, you know, I was in steamboat Colorado, pure bliss riding down through the Aspens ferns grass, you know, just it up, having fun. And I wasn't on anything hard. I was on, you know, a fast single track, but open, not technical again, not pushing my limit. Um, anyway, there was a, uh, small stump. by the grass and ferns on the side of the trail and 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Oh,

Travis: you know, in those circumstances, like if anyone's ever had a pedal strike, like man, the bike stops and you keep going. And you know, who know, I probably flew through the air 20 feet at least, you know, right onto my head.

Luckily I landed in the trail instead of, you know, into a tree [00:11:00] or a rock or something, but you know, landed. you know, right on my head and my shoulder a bit. Um, and I knew immediately that I had a concussion. Uh, you know, I've, I've had a number of concussions like, like many athletes, you know, um, and, and my most recent one was, was in March in a, in a big ski race in France, uh, ski mountaineering race called the Pierre Amenta.

Um, I had a concussion there as well and, you know, thought I was recovered. This was, you know, again, July, I'd been riding, feeling good, totally functional. Um, And who knows? In hindsight, was that, was it too close to the previous one? Is that why the symptoms were so sticky? You know, who knows? There's a lot of, um, there's just, there's still a lot of uncertainty and a lot of things that we don't understand.

Although, excuse me, the, um, Knowledge protocols, etc. around concussion are really coming along and that's something I would encourage anyone who's grappling with it. Like the old view was kind of a passive recovery. [00:12:00] You know, let's take away all stimulus and then slowly bringing them back. You know, now it's, it's more, it's more active exercise as part of the recovery protocol, which was great.

You know, so I spent a lot of couple months all I couldn't run. I obviously couldn't bike outside, but I was riding easy on the indoor trainer with my eyes closed. Um, you know, getting, getting my exercise fixed, getting the blood flow. That was part of the recovery, uh, vision therapy. I was able to track down here in my teeny little town, Vidya McClutchie, you know, an angel sent from above my therapist.

She helped me, uh, you know, doing vestibular therapy. So doing these very active. Also doing, um, you know, counseling, uh, therapy was, was a big piece of it. Cause there's a mental health component. Ton of meditation was hugely helpful to me. Um, yeah, it's, it's doing a lot, but it's also like, you know, one of my, I'm a, I'm a guy of many mantras.

One of them is as fast as we can, as slow as we must. And, and [00:13:00] this was really a case of like a lot of the, you know, moving forward, making progress means slowing down and doing less and being present and being okay, sitting with that uncertainty. Like, am I ever going to be able to drive my kids to soccer practice again? Hopefully so, but maybe not. Um, and that was, that was a hard place to be, you know, thankfully I've been able to move beyond that. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: wow. Yeah. I mean, almost a year since. And, uh, Yeah, glad to hear that you are much better, Travis, and you were, you were diligent and conscientious in taking advantage of modern health and are, in as good a shape as you can be given your accident was [00:14:00] still somewhat recent. 

first started this podcast, there were sports that were on my radar that I was either doing myself or I was acquainted to some degree. Adventure racing, which correct me, but I, it's, It's let's say this sport that you are the best known for. I didn't really completely understand what that is. I had heard about the Eco challenges.

I had never really watched those things to be honest. I used to think those were, uh, you know, made for TV, uh, things that real athletes didn't do, but I am, you know, I'm quickly learning that I was wrong. And I also hear that adventure racing is often called the. Toughest sport you have never heard of. So how would you [00:15:00] describe it to someone who's brand new to it?

Holy

Travis: Great question. Cushion, and there are things on TV that might use the words AdventureRace. And it is, like you said, it's this made for TV. thing, you know, and, and, and that's, I mean, honestly, what's part of the fun of the sport of adventure racing is, is it's not restricted by guidelines. There's no set, there's not the Ironman distance.

There's not, you know, a set mileage to compare from race to race. You can't, you know, you, you can't compare like, Oh, at the world championship in Scotland, our time was whatever. And how does that compare to the, you know, whatever world championship? The New Zealand or something like it, you know, it, it doesn't matter.

It's two completely, completely different things. And, and that's kind of fun because it forces flexibility, it forces creativity. You know, it, I think it's, it's [00:16:00] right up there at the top in terms of a sport with intellectual challenge, uh, with dynamism, with creativity, with patience, and also with teamwork. Um, which makes it super cool. So anyway. to the start, what is an adventure race? Uh, you know, it's, it's this again, relatively unsystematized or unstructured event of a certain length that could, you know, shorter races could be a three hour race or a six hour race. It could be a 12 hour race, you know, a 24 hour race, a 48 hour. Those are kind of, you know, in, in the, uh, let's say, especially in the sort of domestic realm, those are kind of traditional, uh, distances or times, you know, in the 48 hour race, that may mean, well, maybe the winning team, maybe it takes them 30 or 35 hours and maybe the cutoff is 48 hours or something, you know, but basically they're these long durations that time.

You can [00:17:00] expect in almost every race to do some trekking, you know, which means either running or hiking or walking or, you know, crawling, if you're really in trouble. Um, You can expect to do mountain biking. Uh, you can expect to do some sort of paddling and that could be canoes, kayaks, surf skis. It could be, uh, sailboats, you know, it could be these, uh, inflatable river boards, you know, something, some kind of stand up paddle boards, right?

Some sort of paddling. Um, most races, especially at kind of the higher levels have, uh, fixed ropes and or rock climbing. So you get to a crag usually, and I know you're a climber, but the ropes will be rigged and you're doing some of, uh, ascending, Tyrolean traverse, rappelling. Those are kind of typically the main, uh, skills. Um, those are, those are the main disciplines, but then they also, they throw in, especially at like the international level, the world [00:18:00] championship level, they throw in like things that are unique. that area, that culture. So that could like, my dad did the eco challenge in Morocco and they rode camels. Uh, you know, a lot of places they'll throw in, um, horseback riding or trekking with a horse. Uh, I remember we did the world championship in Sweden and there's all these rollerblade sections, Kush, like literally like a hundred K of rollerblading, you know, like with, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: cow.

Travis: this is What the Swedes do, right?

They're Nordic skiers and it's the summertime. So you're like rollerblading for like,

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: What if you can't, what if you, what if you're like the, the toughest athlete in the world, but you cannot rollerblade? I can't rollerblade. What?

Travis: that's another great question in advance. You don't know the course. Usually you don't know the distance, you know, there's a lot you don't know. Usually, especially a while ago when I was doing it, you would basically all you would know is the disciplines and then you'd [00:19:00] get there and then like the day of the race, that's when you'd get the maps and you'd be like, you know, Oh fuck, it's a hundred K of rollerblading.

Like, you know, you know, we've been, we've been training, you know, like whatever you go out and you're an hour or something here and there. so you, So yeah, you're doing all those things. Uh, you're doing an unmarked course. So you're navigating by map and compass. You, you know, electronics, no GPS, no, you know, most of my races were before phones or GPS or anything really existed.

But even now, like you can't, you can't wear your Garmin watch. You can't have your Garmin bike computer.

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Oh man.

Travis: is map and compass, which is awesome. Like that's part of the whole, that's like, You know, that's the, uh, I should have mentioned like navigation. That's, that's another, that's one of the most important disciplines, like not getting lost or trying to find quicker ways.

Um, and then finally, you know, some of the shorter races you can do [00:20:00] solo, which is awesome. Like I've done many races, probably up to 24 hours solo, and that's great. It's a fantastic challenge. It's a lot of fun. Um, but for most of the races, you know, the multi day races or, you know, the sort of, So called expedition races and that's where you get into Adventure Racing World Championship, the Adventure Racing World Series, uh, these kind of things.

Again, you probably haven't heard of it unless you're in, unless you're in the know, and if you're in the know you think it's totally awesome because it is. Um, yeah. Those expedition races, you know, we're talking a winning time of four, five, six days, you know, maybe up to for the longest ones, you know, a cut, like when we did that eco challenge in, um, uh, in Fiji there, you know, the, I think the cutoff was 10 or 11 days.

Um, And then most of these, some of them are stage races. You race, you know, set amount of time and sleep at night. And those, that's a super cool format, really fun, great for [00:21:00] community building. Um, most of the big races are, are nonstop. So like the gun goes off and like you are on the clock until you get to the finish three days or, you know, five or 10 days later, you're racing the whole time.

So that becomes a, you know, a big, uh, element of it is, uh, how do you manage sleep? When do you stop? Where do you stop? You know, um, how, how much are you sleeping or, or not sleeping? All of these kind of become part of the puzzle. So, yeah, it's great. If, if you, if you like flexibility, if you like creativity, if you like, uh, The team component, Kush, is so great because, especially in those long races, everyone on the team has times where they're the strongest person on the team and they have a lot to offer.

And, and everyone on the team has times where they are the weakest person on the team. And like, you literally, you need your friends to carry your shit and pull you forward until you're feeling better. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: This is [00:22:00] absolutely nuts. Uh, Travis. Is there any. Yeah. Kind of thing they can throw at you that perhaps break the rules of the sport. I mean, are there any rules of the sport? Like, is there some things that, I mean, beyond, I don't know, um, breaking the law 

Anything that is not allowed.

Travis: Yep. There are, there's some very standardized rules or rules that go from rate, you know, for example, in a team race, like the team has to stay together, you know, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Hmm.

Travis: and usually in the rule, you know, it'll say within 50 yards or within a hundred yards or within, you know, may be, if you're going for four days, maybe there's a little leeway, someone has to stop and poop in the woods.

Maybe the other rest of the team keeps walking and they got, 200 yards away and then they got caught up, you know, something like that. So something like that would be a standard rule. Like, yes, not breaking any laws. Um, they may very well may write in, okay, on this bike [00:23:00] section, you're not allowed to go on this highway over here. Or you're not allowed to, you know, go here or, or whatever. So there often will be key stipulations. Um, often it'll say, uh, all the checkpoints have to be done in order. Um, or it might say, you know, these 10 checkpoints can be done in any order. And then that becomes really fun. Cause you're like, okay, we get to hear like, oh, you know, do we do like, you got to figure it out or they might.

There might be, for example, let's say an orienteering component, and it's like these 20 checkpoints can be done in any order, and you can either go by bike or foot, or some combination therein. And then that becomes super fun, because you're like, oh, we're going to bike to this trail junction and leave our bikes, and then we're going to heck the trail. hike up there and get that checkpoint and that checkpoint. And then we're going to come back to our bikes and bike over there or whatever. So there's, there's a ton of, um, creativity, you know, part of, part of what I really like [00:24:00] is like, that's, know, I would say it's within the DNA of the sport of like, if something is not listed as not allowed, then maybe it kind of is allowed, or that, that would be where maybe ahead of the race, you have this idea you ask the race director about it.

Like, for example, like, Hey, you know, I see, we're supposed to paddle 50 K on this river, but next to the river, or let's say a mile away from the river, there's a road that goes, you know, 30 K. Cause it doesn't wind all around. Like, can we get on that road and carry our boat? Or can we bring a cart like a wheel cart and put the kayak on these wheels and tow it on the river, you know, something like that.

So there's a lot of, um, yeah, a lot of, uh, creativity, which is, you know, much of the fun. We, we did that in that race in Fiji, we're stand up paddling. This, uh, you know, this windy river and it's just raining harder than, [00:25:00] as hard as you can imagine. Jungle rain, Kush. Like, you can't even believe how hard it is raining. And my dad's back was getting really bad and his balance was pretty tough on, on these boats. And so we had asked ahead of time, we noticed that same thing. Here's a road that goes the same way. It may be faster, maybe slower. Um, but we asked the organizers, can we, Can we walk this road? And they said, yeah, you can do that.

You're going to carry these standup paddle boards. They each weigh like 20 pounds or whatever. You got to figure out how to carry them. So we got out and we, we, uh, we found a local guy had a wheelbarrow he gave us his wheelbarrow and we put our deflate, our paddle boards, put them in there. And, and we like hiked, you know, whatever it was, 10 K on this road with these local guys.

He said, he said like five local teenagers. These kids had to come with us to the next village to bring the wheelbarrow. Back to the guy who owned it, but it was this incredible cultural experience. We got to hang out with these local kids and, and talk to 'em and, you know, hear their stories. It was just, it was [00:26:00] fantastic. 


kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Wow, so this is the middle of Fiji. You are in your stand up paddle boards in pelting rain. And you had to You had to quickly improvise when you realized you could not continue doing so and then you managed to , and strike affinity with some local people and, uh, start wheelbarrow Hiking through the jungles of Fiji.

Yeah. Uh, you really have to think on your feet and, uh, you know, continue pushes. Um, let me ask you this. Um, so this absolutely sounds like something very challenging, very awe inspiring. Any other moment you can think of, Travis, where. You encountered a sport or a part of a race which kind of left you [00:27:00] stumped and yet to be really creative to push through.

Travis: Yeah. Yeah. All, all the time. I, I, I mean, I think part of a lot of the sports I've chosen. I've chosen for that. You know, I said I like the novelty. I like the creativity. I'm drawn to a sport where like the fitness really matters, but so does the mental resilience. Like I said, the intellect, um, the problem solving really, I mean, any, any ultra run, you can almost guarantee like when I'm coaching ultra runners, it's a lot less of like, let's mentally prepare for the exact perfect race. because I can almost guarantee like, you know, 50k or more, you're probably not going to have the exact perfect race. Like you're probably going to have problems and you, you, you might be stumped and you're going to have to fix stuff. And, and maybe solution number one will fix it, but maybe it's going to take solution number [00:28:00] two and three and four and five.

And that just, you know, that kind of makes it better. Um, I, uh, for a couple of years, I was really into, um, the sport of pack borough racing, and this is a very Colorado centric sport. It's a high altitude running race and it's a team race. And on the team, there's one human and there's one donkey and you have your donkey with you and you're connected.

You hold on to, you know, his or her lead rope and, uh, and you're run together. mean, it sounds like, you know, podunk redneck kind of stuff, which it is, but it also like I tell everyone it is like, there's so much going on and there's so much like intellectual stimulation and stuff to figure out because you got to know your donkey, you got to know how 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Oh man.

Travis: to all the other donkeys.

You got to know, your point of like being totally stumped, like, hell yeah, man.

I've been up there. 12, 000 feet on some mining road in Leadville. And like the donkey [00:29:00] is stopped and like, he does not want to go forward. He doesn't want to go back. Like he's standing there. He's, he's done, you know? And so like, you got to figure out what, and, and talk about testing your patients, you know, coming from, uh, you know, especially so, you know, I've done a lot of running and, you know, been at the elite level and running and like, okay, well this, this sport is not just.

Back how fast you can run. Like there's a lot more going on. so Yeah. I've been totally, you know, totally stumped there. Some of these ski mountaineering races, like, you know, man, you, you know, you, you run out of fluids or you, you know, your gear fails. Like your skins won't stick to your skis anymore. Uh, you know. in, you're in adverse conditions. Uh, you're, you know, man, some of those adventure races we had times out in the desert, like, you're like, you know, man, are we going to make it out of here alive with enough water? Um, there, there's all these times to, to solve. [00:30:00] solve problems. We got stopped, we got stopped at the border in an adventure race between, um, Chile and Argentina.

And there was something, there was some like issue with, you had to have your passports, but like something was off. Like, I can't remember what the deal was. They were giving us crap about it. I mean, we ended up sitting there for like a few hours and like, you know, yeah, we're stumped. Like sometimes it's, It's solving, solving, figuring out, trying this, trying that. And then it's also like, you know, back to the bigger life thing. Like sometimes we just have to accept, like accept where we are and accept that like some of this shit, like we can't control and we have to be

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. Brilliant, Travis. love the illustrations, you know, and this certainly, breaks, you know, breaks the mold a little bit because when I think of ultra athletes, I think of, you know, these huge, vast races that you guys are completing. [00:31:00] We think of, you know, Something on the lines of like, you know, the name of that TV series, like Survivor, like the planet's like fittest, toughest people, you know, just like, I don't know, just forging through the tundra, right?

What I'm hearing is, yes, you have to have those physical attributes, but you also need the, the creativity, the patience, the, obviously the resilience, but also maybe to some degree, the ability to almost be able to laugh at yourself and be calm because like, you know, that, that whole incidents with the boroughs, you know, with the, uh, with the donkeys trying to figure out how to make those, how to, how to build that relationship with this animal that you may not be so familiar with, or being stumped at the border.

I mean, they draw upon like all these other qualities that really, in some ways, I mean, [00:32:00] Just make me think that, you know, this adventure racing may be, uh, one of the world's most complete, not even, I don't know. I mean, the word sport is, seems to like, not be enough of a term to, to describe it. Like, I think we should just stop at the term adventure.


one other question here is, was there a time Travis? Like. Again, in one of these big races, it could be a team race or an individual one where you really felt that, okay, goodness, you know, I've done all of these different things, but now I am truly stumped and you had to like dig really deep to get past.

Travis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And let me, first of all, let me, I'm glad that you mentioned fun and humor, because I think that's really important. I think, you know, most of the world's best athletes are able to harness that component, um, the fun, and it's got to be, you know, back to my coaching. Like, I want to make training fun.

[00:33:00] I want to help each athlete in their own way, bring out that, that fun, because like consistency is that's, that's what, you know, creates fitness and what leads to consistency and sustainability, like fun and enjoyment. I think that's really important. And I think that's something, uh, you know, people have to intentionally cultivate at the lowest times.

So, um, yeah, I mean, have I been totally stumped? Uh, yeah, I mean, lots, lots of times, you know, and I kind of, I've had a bit of transition on that, Kush. I, I kind of, most of my, Ultra endurance career. You know, I thought, uh, you know, quitting or dropping out like that. That was not an option. That was not a That was not a possibility. It was like, you know, you only stop racing if you're literally going to the hospital. Um, and, and I've kind of, you know, honestly, my view has changed. Like I've just, again, a lot [00:34:00] of this Alzheimer's journey, like you've just realized, like, not all or nothing. there's, There's gray area.

There's in between. There can still be a lot of goodness, without the achievement of that original goal. And maybe without, you know, reaching the finish line. And I've actually, I've, I've become, I've become okay with that, you know, and sometimes it's like, okay, I'm, I'm stuck. I can't go on or, you know, I miss you miss a cutoff like, well, okay, you're, you're out of the race.

Like most ultras, most races, they have these cutoffs. Like, you know, after that eco challenge, my dad was still able to kind of, you know, participate in some of these ultra runs that we would do together. And like, we missed the, like, we're, we couldn't go fast enough. We're done. Like you're stumped. Um, you're out, but it's also like, it's okay.

It's, it's not, it's not the end of the world. Um, and yeah, I have been points, especially in adventure races. Uh, you [00:35:00] know, like you're, you're totally, uh, the sleep deprivation, like that's, it's really hard. It's something I don't, you know, I really don't do that as much anymore. Now that we know more about sleep, we know more about how important sleep is with not, um, cognitive decline, uh, later in life.

And, um, it makes me think more about doing these, these races where like, you literally lose it. Like you, you are so, I mean, Kush, you're riding your bike down a hill on pavement and you fall asleep and you just crash in the road. And like, you may wake up or you might not, you might be just lying there asleep. Um, and, and that's an example of like, Yeah.

you're up against a wall. You're like. You're, you know, okay. Do you rally as a team? Do you try to consume some caffeine? Do you, one time that happened, man, my teammate crashed like that. He's asleep in the ditch and we're like 10 miles from the finish at the world championship.

[00:36:00] Like, I think we're, I don't know. We're like, we were in fourth or something. Like we're going for A podium place in the world championship. And it's like, clearly we can't bike anymore. Like the finish line may be 10 minutes away, but like there's, you know, like this brain is not working. We have to stop and sleep.

So like, you know, sometimes it's just accepting. And then, then other times it's like fighting back or pushing, you know, okay, we're super, super lost, but like, we've got to, okay, let's turn around and let's backtrack to the last point that we knew we were at. And well, maybe we just lost. Five hours, but like now we're back on course. so yeah, it's, it's resilience, it's acceptance and it's kinda, it's weighing that balance, you know? And sometimes, you know, sometimes the way through is to like, pushing, keep hammering, you know, move forward. And sometimes, and this is true, I think so much in life, sometimes in [00:37:00] order to move forward, like We have to just accept what's going on.

And that means in a venture race, we have to stop and sleep. It's the only possibility. We're an athlete and we get injured or we get sick and we want to like push, push, push, like, Oh, I don't want to lose fitness. I want to, you know, whatever. Like we want to train through it. And we have to realize like, you know, The only way to get better is I have to rest.

Like I cannot train. I have to rehab. I have to just, like I said with the concussion, like I just, I have to do nothing for much longer than I want to. And that's the only way, uh, to get better, you know?

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah.

Travis: those ones are really, that's super hard, you know?

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: A quick clarifying question. So, uh, most of these, uh, team races, no drop races where each person in the team has to make it to the end. Yeah. 

Travis: Yeah.

that's the basic idea. Yep. You, you, it's not a relay. Like you're doing everything together. You're, you're helping each other. You're often at the elite [00:38:00] level, like, man, you're literally towing each other along. You're using little bungee cords and you're, you're towing each other's asses, trekking.

biking, you hook a little retractable dog leash mechanism up to a seat post and that becomes a toe line. So you're 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Wow.

Travis: other on the bike, you're towing the boats, like it's this constant, like what is most efficient for us as a team. Um, and, and then some of, probably some of the smaller races, they might, you know, whatever you start with four, they might say if one person wants to stop at this aid station, three people can still have an official finish or something. Um, but, you know, yeah, kind of at the elite international level, you know, it's the, to have an official finish every, everyone has to, um, finish. So, yeah. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: I want to, uh, just stick with that team aspect for a second. How do these teams come together? Are you selecting your teammates? [00:39:00] based on, let's say, individual qualities that you bring that complement one another. And the other thing I'm also sensing is that you may come together for all kinds of reasons, but out there in, in the race, you likely develop these strong bonds that, 

Travis: Oh, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: you know, that stick with a long time.

Like one of the things I loved reading and also hearing about is your dad's and Marshall Ulrich's and like and some other people and their friendship and partnership where they may have met through the ambit of racing but they developed this strong friendship. That has gone beyond any race they may have done together.[00:40:00] 

Travis: Yeah. Great question. Kush. How does an adventure racing team come together? You know, that answer is probably as unique as how many adventure racing teams there are, you know, maybe it's buddies, maybe it's siblings. Maybe, you know, right now I coach a number of adventure racers and especially newer athletes, you know, many teams have been like, Hey, I coach this person here in Oklahoma.

And I coach these two people in California, you know, it seems to me they're probably at about the same level. They might get along. I mean, this is what unw02 Yeah. We, uh, we found what we were You know, I mean, we're all here now and it's, uh, helpful to talk about dialogue with other people. people as listeners.

So I think that's part of it too, is communication between other people. I mean, we all do this at different times. You know, some kids meet some you know, I'm, I'm a new racer, you know, whatever. I'm, I used to be an elite triathlete and I want to try this. Like anyone want to do this, you know, and maybe you find someone who [00:41:00] they're, they're a good fit personality wise, goal wise, training wise, uh, et cetera.

Um, you know, kind of when I was racing, like at the, at the, professional and sponsored level. Um, honestly, a lot of it, and, and this is kind of, you know, uh, early through the mid to late 2000s, it kind of, it's like, who has a sponsorship? know, it's like, well, you know, Like we, we got a deal from Spyder, you know, okay, who else can we bring in?

Or we have, you know, we're three Colorado athletes. We had this sponsorship from the ski company Spyder we're like, well, we're relatively very strong running and biking, but like, we need someone who can paddle really well. And like who paddles well, well, the Kiwis and the Aussies. All right. Hey, which, which Kiwis and Aussies don't have a team, you know, for the world champs or whatever.

So like we would make teams that way or, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Sure.

Travis: it'd be like one race, you know, again, this [00:42:00] small kind of, very, You know, just niche circuit of elite athletes, you know, it's, it's like, Oh, well, you know, Oh man, he lost his sponsorship. Like, let's get him on our team or same way, like one race, you're racing against these people in the next race.

You're, you're kind of, uh, together, you know, and like sort of at the end of there's this guy, Mike closer, you know, legendary adventure racing, world champion, mountain bike. He'd be a great guest for your podcast. Actually, Mike's still going at it, you know, in his life. Late sixties, early seventies. Um, but sort of towards the end of Mike's adventure racing career, he was still doing this, this team, Nike, they were probably the one of the most successful, definitely the most successful American adventure race team of all time.

And, and like, they were kind of, some of their usual people were out. And I was like the young athlete coming up and they're like, Hey, Trav, you wanna come, you know, race with us in, in China or France or whatever? And, and, you know, and I'm like, hell yeah. Like this is, you know, I'm like, you know, racing with my idols here.

So, um, yeah, you know, lots of different. [00:43:00] And then you're exactly right. These, these relationships, you know, they build into, um, something deeper, you know, two of my original teammates, Dave Mackey and Danelle Ballingy, like, you know, we were racing together a lot 20 years ago and we haven't done it, you know, together for whatever, 15 years, but like, You know, I still know them at a really deep level and we're at much different phases of life, you know, with our, our own kids are, you know, going through middle school and high school and, and college soon.

But like, you know, we have these connections and we have these memories and, and it's awesome. And, and like you said, you know, my, my dad and his good buddies, Marshall Ulrich and, and Dr. Bob Haw, like. Those started as his adventure racing teammates. And how did they make a team? Well, the first Eco Challenge, 1995 in Utah, my dad and Marshall were on a team with, they were like, they were early to mid forties. And as they tell it, [00:44:00] the people on their team was the kids, you know, they were with these kids who are, you know, whatever, in their twenties. I don't even know who these People are but they're halfway through the race. And like the kids quit my dad, Marshall, you know, these, these like grizzly, you know, older guys, they're like, fuck, no, we're not quitting.

And so they just sat there in the desert until another team came along and they, they dropped half of their team. So they made a new team. And this is, you know, again, you probably not allowed to do that Nico challenge anymore, but they made a new team. called themselves a stray dogs. And that was Bob and, and Lisa Smith, you know, another kind of legendary ultra Runner and they were the new, team, straight dogs, and th they were, you know, there are teammates for the next, like, you know, literally what, 25 years later, they're still doing races 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: That's amazing.

Travis: like, you know, on that friendship point Kush like, I mean, this is really like a shout out to, like, to like Marsh and Bob. Um, Those are guys, these are men of a generation like, [00:45:00] um, I think tenderness and like empathy, it was not part of their vernacular. Like these are hard ass guys who went out and they did the right, they cared about each other, believe me, but like they, they didn't say it.

And, and it was, you know, a different way of express, expressing friendship and appreciation. Man, Watching, like, Marsh and Bob be friends to my dad through this Alzheimer's journey, like, they have, they've learned love, they've learned tenderness, they've learned, like, this, this, this level of expressing connection, and, and it's like, it is, it's so inspirational to me, and it's, it's like, so, it's so awesome, you know, and it's a lot different from, like, the hammer it out, like, badass, you know, kind of, you know, which is part of 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Give each other shit. You know, yeah.

Travis: Exactly. Yeah. But it's like a different thing. And it's like even better. And it's like, they're still doing it. And like, it just, it, it, you know, makes [00:46:00] me so happy. And it's like, it's so inspiring to me.

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. Absolutely. Your dad, Mark Macy, You know, he's such a beloved figure in adventure racing. So for listeners who, yeah, for listeners who may not know, could you share a bit about his background and I also want you to touch on the influence. He had on you, bring you to where you are in your life today, Travis.

Travis: Oh man. yeah. You know, my dad's background, like he was born in 1953 in Michigan, you know, grew up playing all the team sports, uh, became a lawyer as a young man. He and my mom moved to Evergreen, Colorado in 1980, you know, where I was born. A few years later and [00:47:00] shortly after I was born, uh, got into these endurance sports and it started with the marathon and then it went to the Ironman. Uh, you know, she finished, um, it would have been 86 or 87, like one of the years, Mark Allen, Scott, you know, that kind of generation. Uh, and then shortly after that, he got into the, uh, Leadville 100 run was kind of his first distance thing. So, you know, he got into. Doing Leadville, doing bad water, and then starting at 95 doing, uh, the eco challenge.

You know, so that was his, his big thing for, you know, a number of, I think they did that, seven or eight year, probably eight years in a row or something. Um, in addition to, you know, working full-time as a, as a trial lawyer and, uh, you know, and being it. A dad, a great and present dad to, uh, me and, and my two sisters and, um, foster brother and foster sister who, who lived with our family.


He, he was on it. And [00:48:00] I think a lot of, you know, I, I hope that most kids get to feel this way about their dad, but like, You know, he held, he held a foundational place in my psyche and still does, know, even though things are a lot different. So yeah, you know, he, he never pushed me into endurance sports or running, you know, or anything, but like I was around those things.

I was, you know. I was five years old and I'm in the old Sixth Street gym in Leadville and Ken Kluber, you know, he's, he's, you know, you're better than you think you are. You can do more than you think you can. And like, man, that stuff, like 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Wow. 

Travis: You know, like that 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. 

That kind of early programming, huh?

Travis: yeah, be in there, you know, 4am in Leadville, like it's freezing cold.

And you got this old cowboy shooting a shotgun, you know, who like, I don't know, there's whatever 30 people are going to [00:49:00] go run the Leadville and a hundred, like, you know, that stuff that all that, that's. with me, you know, in a good way. And like dad became, um, you know, my companion through a lot of that, uh, through, you know, especially like kind of in my twenties when I was racing a ton, you know, he was crewing me doing, um, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's sad to think of these, it's sad and happy.

Like these are just emotional memories, but like they're things that we got to do together. And at that time, like, you know, as a young man, like it's, you know, I just figured this would always happen. Like, I will always be doing stuff with my dad. Uh, you know, I'll, I'll always be winning. I'll always be an elite athlete.

My dad will always be able to, you know, do these things with me. Uh, you know, in hindsight, you realize like things, things change and that's okay. Um, and, You know, [00:50:00] all of that, all that said, like, I think the, um, what I want people to know about my dad is like what his, his magic Kush was like helping other people, um, helping his teammates, helping just random people on courses. Like he'd be out there at Leadville in the middle of the night and he would like find people who were going to drop out of the race. And he'd like, um, and give them a pep talk and he'd like, get them in warm clothes and like, give them, you know, food and water. Um, and like, they, you know, they'd finish or they'd keep going or, or, you know, whatever. And like that, um, that was his, his, his, um, Essence. Um, you know, of course, Yeah,

he was a great athlete and resilient and worked really hard, but like, you know, his, uh, his essence.

And I think his [00:51:00] legacy was, um, was helping other people. And even in, man, I tell you what, like, two weeks after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's, um, Something switched and he went from like being pissed off and like the, the, why me? Like, why me? That's, you know, that's a great question. Like anyone, we have an injury, we have a diagnosis, like, why me?

I've been a good person. I've done things. I treat people. Well, you know, those are, those are. you know, logical questions and there's not an answer, unfortunately, but, but he flipped that switch, man. And instead of why me, it was like, how can I make a difference? How can I, you know, I'm not going to hide this.

I'm not going to cover this up. I'm not going to, you know, none of that bullshit. Like I'm going to, you know, I'm going to share this story and I'm going to try to try to help other people. Um, know, he has. And it's been, [00:52:00] it's been great, you know, and he, and he still like, you know, like I said, like, man, you know, he couldn't do a video call like this.

He couldn't do an interview. He couldn't, you know, like language skills are deteriorating, um, like Kush, you know, at moments, like the spark is there and, and his essence comes out and we get out and we're like hiking up that hill, you know, by his house and, and something a little bit competitive comes out or whatever.

And he's feeling good and he's moving, um, you know, and in the midst of like, severe challenge, like, um, It's still there. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Travis. Uh, yeah, that gives me goosebumps. Uh, thanks for sharing all that.

People who have followed your. Dad's journey, know that he is, yeah, such a, such a [00:53:00] legend, such a larger than life competitor. yeah, curious, uh, maybe a couple of instances you can share on how has that fighting spirit shown up even through the advancement of Alzheimer's. actually let me ask this question for those who don't know first.

How old was your dad when you first found out that he has this? And how old is he now?

Travis: So he was diagnosed at 64, which, you know, technically if it's, if it's under 65, I think they call it early onset or young onset, uh, Alzheimer's. Um, and, and he's now 71. know, and like I said, there's been a lot of, you know, a lot of change. He's, he's at, you know, later stages. needs a ton of support with every single little daily task.

You know, can't [00:54:00] can't be, uh, alone or home alone or, you know, anything like that. He, you know, because she needs help walking from the living room to the bedroom because spatial, disorientation is so challenging. And like, how is that spirit come out that 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. 

Travis: Like, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah.

Travis: I mean, He and, sorry, my, and my mom as well, I mean, she's, she's the same age, um, you know, she's had, she's had three organ transplants. She had a kidney in 1990, or excuse me, a liver first, and then a couple of kidney transplants. Transplants and thankfully is I mean, she's awesome. She's doing great physically and psychologically, energetically, and supporting him as is a ton.

but they continue to show me that like, man, you can look at. You can look at circumstances and it [00:55:00] seems, seems like someone would have every reason to be to be pessimistic, to be down, you know, and, and those feelings do come up. like, man, they just continue to, to make the most of things. Um, you know, and, and like watching my dad, like, just, like what it shows me is people still have humanity and they still have value and they still have contributions, like just because someone can't get dressed or can't, you know, like I said, find the bathroom from from the living room or use the bathroom alone. Like, it doesn't mean they can't be a loving father, a loving grandparent. Um, a person who, who has, who has fun, uh, who offers friendship or tenderness, [00:56:00] um, who provides inspiration. I mean, like my, my dad goes to, he goes to a senior research center a couple of days a week, uh, you know, with other older folks who, you know, many have significant needs as well.

And, um, You know, sometimes dad kind of thinks of that as his job and, and he's going there and he's, he's sharing energy, sharing positivity. He's in, in the midst of, I mean, you know, he can't remember the names of the people he saw there yesterday. But like, you know, there's something about a spirit that's like providing something to community.

Um, you know, and, and that, that just, that goes back like your original word community. Like, that's, that's where it's at. You know, that's like a lot of dad's current team is at that senior resource center. And, you know, it's incredible. Like those, those people, like they're the staff, their resilience, their intellect, [00:57:00] their creativity. You're communicating with, with a lot of people who can't use words. And how do you figure out that How do you tap into whether someone is comfortable or uncomfortable or in pain or needs help? Like, man, those, those are, those are magical people, you know, doing really good work. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Travis. Yeah. I, I can see that, Alzheimer's can be so difficult and not taking anything away from what the loss of the simple, but. Fundamental, crucial skills are these motor skills like you shared, you know, needing help from moving from one room in the house to the other. especially for somebody like your dad, who's, who's, you know, conquered like, all night races [00:58:00] in Alaska by himself.

Right. So, but what I find so powerful in what you shared is that Alzheimer's can take away so many things, but your dad continues to draw upon his essence of who he is and his spirit as a person, and this is, this is evoked so beautifully in this, in the book that you wrote of how he's able to, you know, he may not remember how to tie the seatbelt.

in his aircraft as you're flying to Fiji, but he's able to, to regale and, keep this crowd of young fans spellbound as he shares stories and dispenses wisdom of, of past, past races and past adventures. And [00:59:00] that, that struck out to me, um, on the subject of Fiji. So I have a couple of questions. So first of all, is this, um, it's a listener question from my own father, who is a fan of the eco challenge races.

He had known about you guys, seen you guys on TV. He also happens to be a psychiatrist. So one question my dad had was, you guys made that decision. The team made that decision to withdraw from the race, right? And he was curious as to your dad's participation in that decision.

Travis: Mm hmm. Yeah. That's it. That's a good question. First of all, hi, hi to Kush's dad. Thanks for, for listening, uh, and, and watching the race. 

Um, [01:00:00] 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: And sorry, I should have mentioned his name. His name is uh, Dr. Sudhir Kundelwal. So this question comes to you from Dr. Sudhir from Delhi, India.

Travis: Great. Cool. Yeah, Excellent. Um, yeah. Geez. That the decision to, to drop out of the eco challenge and people can watch that, you know, Amazon, Prime video, look up world's toughest race. yeah, spoiler alert. We didn't win the race. And so we ended up dropping out after, after about, um, seven days.

And yeah, that decision in the moment, um, it was definitely a team choice. Um, you know, that said, probably had it been. Only up to my dad. I think he, he would have wanted to keep going. in, in it really our choice to drop out. It was, it was actually interesting. It was of, [01:01:00] you know, as you can see in the race, you know, there were significant cognitive deficits.

Um, but we had figured out how to manage that. safely and effectively. And, and also in a fun, all four, like we were having fun, like for seven days. I mean, it was really hard, but we had so much fun. We had so much laughter. We had so much like connection shooting the shit. And, and that was very true for all of us, know, as it turned out, like the reason to drop out was, was more of a physical reason where dad's. back, which we knew could be an issue going in, you know, had really debilitated. And if, if you watch the footage, we're basically, you know, tracking up a very technical kind of river valley. Um, dad couldn't really walk alone. And it was, it's in and out of rivers, all these super slippery rocks. He was needing a ton of support from me and Shane.

And then eventually they, this, Kind of unique part [01:02:00] of the race. They let the locals like come with us, you know, so we'd see we had more of these kids who were kind of, you know, supporting dad a lot. Um, and we got to a point where the next thing to come up was, swimming through these freezing cold pools of water where you'd have swim, you know, for whatever. 20 yards and then 50 yards and then 70 or 100 or, you know, swimming and scrambling, canyoneering, basically. and they had done this same section as part of the EcoChallenge in Fiji in 2002. Um, again, people, if you watch the coverage, you'll see the top teams, the team of, of, of my friend, the late, great Emma Rocha, like they almost froze to death in there, you know, cause they didn't have enough clothes and, you know, you're so depleted and everything. So anyway, Shane, remember that part of the course, cause he had done the race in 2002 and, and, you know, he had the courage and, and very rightfully so he made the right call. He was like, [01:03:00] guys, we can't do this. If, if we go in and we try to swim through this stuff, like, Mace can't swim right now because his back and it like literally we were walking into a rescue.

and, and Shane was right, you know, and it turned out like that, um, that was the call, you know, but like, I think, um, It was a good choice. It was the right choice. It was, it was a hard choice. You know, I think if you watch the coverage there, I mean, you know, dad bad for, you know, a bit or, you know, stories come up like, this is my fault, or you guys could have made it if I wasn't there or, or but that like, you know, those weren't the stories in the rest of our minds.

Like we were, When we set a goal of like, let's do the eco challenge. Like we knew if we get to that starting line, like we have one we did. And we, you know, went for seven days, like managing a lot of adversity and, and sleeping a [01:04:00] lot every night. We slept probably an average of. six hours a night.

And because we did that, we were fresh during the day and we could make good choices and, you know, move faster during the day than most of the, the back of the pack teams. but yeah, I mean, to, you know, to answer your dad's question, like, um, that mostly was not my dad's choice. And that's also like, man, Just Alzheimer's.

It teaches you so much in it. Like things that we take for granted, like you may say honesty being forthcoming with like honesty is the right thing to do. Okay. Yes. Like we can agree. Yes. Honesty is a great thing in life and with someone with cognitive decline. Is honesty always the exact right thing? My answer is no, because it can like interact, you know, as, as these [01:05:00] changes occur, like, you know, sometimes it's playing along, it's playing with a story. It's, um, You know, okay with, with news stories or false stories or, know, not to, I don't want to like diminish someone and say that they're a child or something.

Cause that's not the case. But we, we all like, okay, you're raising kids. Like, well, Santa Claus. Is that honesty? You know, no, but this is like part of what we do. like, you know, there's certain we, we don't tell kids about all the evils of the world because we shouldn't, and they're not ready to know it.

And sometimes that means, you know, Being dishonest. Um, sometimes with, you know, with an older person dealing with cognitive decline, the best thing to do is not being honest about the upcoming plans or where is so and so during this time or in the like, [01:06:00] just, you 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah, 

Travis: it requires 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: yeah, 

Travis: and 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: yeah, yeah, I know such 

Travis: you know? 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: difficult and complex decision making to be able to manage care, particularly with somebody who is that close to you because yeah, there is no independent decision making here. It is so. layered. 

Again, in your, in your excellent book, Travis, one other, uh, moment that I want, um, I want you to take us to is the, there's this powerful scene where you offer your hand to your dad to keep you going.

If you recall that, can you describe the emotions running through you in that moment? And, and, and what it [01:07:00] symbolized for your father son relationship.

Travis: Yeah, I appreciate that question, Kush, but, um, for a lot of my adulthood, my dad and I have always been very, very close. Um, and just, you know, an amazing connection. like a lot of that, like, it wasn't very physical in terms of touch, hugging, you know, holding hands. Um, and this, you know, this is a cultural, actually, you know, Let me ask you, I know in some cultures, like men hold hands a lot.

Is that, tell me, I mean, I should probably know this. Is India a place where men hold hands, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's funny, uh, as kids, we would hold hands, boys would hold hands, uh, I would hold hands with, uh, kids my age, you know, I don't know when we were 12, 13, 14, when we were in school, going out to lunch break, we thought nothing of it, if I was close, somebody would hold hands, but [01:08:00] as we became adults, you know, I, I came to the U S like, uh, At 21, right?

A while back. And I don't know what was happening in India after I left. In a different way, I think that culture suddenly becomes very different where men kind of akin to the West, uh, I think stop showing a lot of, uh, external affection to, to other men. So I think that's, that's my recollection. 

Travis: Interesting. Um, yeah. So that, like, I mean, to take a step back, like it was a big thing. Big transition for my dad, especially early on, um, to accept help, that's from me, you know, generally, my mom was the first person who was, you know, able to offer it, whether that's physically or otherwise. but that, that took [01:09:00] some time.

And, you know, the, like the handholding, I think I, you know, um, I realized like not only did he need it. mean, literally stumbling through the jungle, like, you know, like we can't move forward unless I'm holding his hand. And now that's true anywhere. As I said, walking from the bedroom to the kitchen, you know, walking down the street. here in Salida. Um, Dad needs someone holding his hand, you know, so, so like, I said, there's one level where, okay, like he needs this, what I've also realized, like, you know, who else needs it? Like me. And it's great. I've come to love it, you know, I really appreciate it. And I'm glad that as hard as it is to, to see my kids and my nephews, watch their grandfather go through this. Like man, I'm so thankful to watch them. They, they're , they're learning love. They're learning tenderness. You [01:10:00] know, they're learning like, Hey, just because, I need to help my grandpa tie his shoes or, you know, literally put food in his mouth. that doesn't mean that he doesn't have value or that, or that he doesn't, uh, me, you know? so Yeah,

there's so much to be learned. And I think that That physical touch, it will remain important.

And we still, you never know, you never know where these things are 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah, 

Travis: it's good. When, when is this changing? What's the night like? You

just don't know, 

you know, and even the fact that dad. remained himself in terms of character, mostly mood, et cetera. A lot of that is luck a lot of people have significant, you know, and, and your dad knows this, you know, this like significant personality changes not their fault.

It's just, it's not because they weren't resilient or whatever. It's because that part of the brain is, is impacted. But I, you know, I think and [01:11:00] expect that, like, as the language capabilities continue to deteriorate, touch, proximity, even communicating via energy, the energy that we put out is so important in helping someone, remain calm, happy, it's connected. you know, a lot of the communication, I think on both ways becomes, less verbal. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Travis, on that, note, watching your father go through this illness has inevitably changed the dynamic in your family. Thank you for sharing how it has been a positive 

Travis: Yeah. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: to his grandkids. What advice would you give to those who may be supporting a loved one with a similar diagnosis, especially when [01:12:00] balancing with hope and acceptance?


Travis: Yeah. Oh man. That's another big question, Kush. I think the long answer that, that book a mile at a time, I think, and the last few pages, we actually offer a bit more. you know, not from, you know, we can't offer a medical opinion or anything, but more philosophical, recommendations. And actually some of those, you know, this book was put together at a time where my dad could still do some journaling.

Mostly he was dictating it really to mostly to my mom or to me at times. And, and some of that you know, literally in his own words. And I think his, his request was like, you know, uh, basically don't, don't discount us. Like, don't, don't just, uh, disregard us as people because we have some deficits, some differences, you know, Increasing decline over time.

And I, I think, you know, I'm, I'm a big fan [01:13:00] of just like respecting people for who they are, whether that's neurodivergence or, you know, so called disabilities, like just because someone has a big deficit in one area, it doesn't mean they don't have a lot to offer in, in other ways, or can't, could be exceptional. in other ways. So I, I think, um, you know, to sum it all up, like what's helped me most is, is embracing that nuance in between. Like it's not, it's not all, know, either where the way things are or all is lost. There's a lot between. And if we kind of keep going, you know, as fast as we can, as slow as we must, like there's, there's still a lot of good.

Um, And also say like recognize the bad, the loss, the sadness, because like, you know, in anyone who's gone through this, whether it's yourself or [01:14:00] a family member, like that, that shit is real. Like you are going to have, um, probably, um, a long period of grieving and, uh, unambiguous loss. And, uh, you know, I've learned like, man, I need to grieve, uh, actively and, and, and continue to do that.

And then sometimes sometimes it's super fresh and raw and like, man, I'll spend, you know, for me, it's out when I'm running or biking and I just stop and I like cry really hard, you know, for a really long time. I think that's good and, and like, I have to do that order to go on and to be functional as a professional and as a parent, you know, and, and as a caregiver, like that's all, that's all part of it, you know, and, and just because there's sadness and grief doesn't mean there's also, you know, 

goodness 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Travis, when we spoke last, You know, we touched on this one [01:15:00] point, which is, so, you know, my, my podcast is about striving to be useless and I strongly believe that the, um, the outdoors and exercise and bundling them together has this profound influence in helping us extend our lifespan, actually our health span.

And when I heard of you and your dad's story, I was, I just knew that I had to find a way to bring you on the show. And you spoke about how your father had this early onset, but then, In some ways, he has, and you, he and your family together have defied, [01:16:00] defied the projections of his illness, and a big part of it was because, one was because his continued, persistence in being able to go outside, and you know, you, in your book you talk about, You know, how he would find ways to go to the recreation center, how he would go up and down this hill.

So I would like to hear from you on how you've personally seen the power of these things in helping your dad continue doing the things he loves. And by doing that, extend his health span.

Travis: Yeah. Yeah. Kush, I, couldn't agree more. And, and you're, you're exactly right with, with Healthspan and with, uh, you know, I, I love the, um, Being Mortal by [01:17:00] Atul Gawande. Are you familiar with that book? 

Or, um, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: I haven't read, I haven't read that book yet. I know of, 

Travis: an 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: I know of his books. Yes. Okay.

Travis: Yeah. I highly, he, you know, his, his main theme is that idea of like, you know, You know, in addition to longevity, quantity of life, like, let's emphasize quality and especially towards, towards the end or with, you know, with something like Alzheimer's or with a terminal illness or something, you know, let's try to be, be clear or, or, you know, for those of us who have aging parents, like what conversations do we need to have? Uh, you know, um, And that's interesting to say, because, you know, at this point, like having any hypothetical or conversation with my dad, I mean, that's the possibility of that is long gone, now it's just doing it. But yes, back to your question has being active outside. enhanced his [01:18:00] health span. I mean, hell yeah. Like that's number one is human connection. And number two is moving outside. And those things, uh, you know, there's, of course we don't know, you know, had we not put emphasis on those things, where would the Alzheimer's progression be at? Like, there's no way you can know, you know, I am very certain that, that, you know, wherever he's at, He's doing a whole lot better physically and psychologically of, again, number one, the human connection and number two, being outside and moving.

And, and, you know, basically it's like, at least for us over the last, you know, six plus years, been a constant, like, Push up against the boundaries of what's capable. Push, push, push. And we saw in Fiji, like, man, we, we pushed that boundary and we got, right to the limit. And, you know, luckily no one, no one got hurt.

No one, you know, I don't think it was [01:19:00] irresponsible to go out and do that race. I could imagine someone, someone with Alzheimer's is doing this. Like, that's crazy. Like, that's, you know, that's not responsible. You know, maybe that's not in their mind, but with me, with my two teammates, with the structure of the race, the safety infrastructure, that felt like an acceptable risk to do something really important that we would never do again. And we've kept doing that. We've kept pushing. that boundary, Kush, um, you know, and, and it was, it was first he was doing ultra runs, you know, and for a long period of time, it was dad being out doing his own training, riding the mountain bike, running, trekking, you know, and those things have disappeared by step.

Like I had to steal my dad's bike. Kush I had to like, you know. It became apparent that physically he could still ride a bike, but he could not stay on the side of the road and it wasn't safe. And like, I [01:20:00] culminated a visit to my parents house by taking his bike. And Like, I'm still sad about that. and was the right choice, you know, so he kept running. He kept trucking. He kept going out up until about three months ago. He was going out alone. One little spot next to little little rural dirt roads. Not much traffic. Dad could go out and he'd go up and down this hill. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. 

Travis: And like, 

what did the, you know, to your 

question, what did that provide? Like, that provides everything. It's like structure to the day. It's purpose. It's excitement. It's routine. It's movement. It's fitness. It's, you know, bone density. It's cardiovascular health. It's autonomy, you know, it's so many things and we've had to, we've had to remove, like, you know, my mom called me and my siblings and she was like, you know, guys, do you think?

I don't think dad 

can do this alone 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. 

Travis: [01:21:00] And, you know, and we're like, yeah, like, probably 

not. Cause like, 

you know, the inevitability of, of getting lost or getting hit by a car. So like, okay, well there goes the autonomy, but we can still do it with him. And, and my mom does it, you know, like, it's still like, that's the plan. And, you know, I call my dad at night and I'm like, I'm like, dad, what'd you do today? 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: I love it. Hmm. 

Travis: He says, I went running, but like, it's all I got to do, but every

day I just go running. It lets, because it's still, it's still part of his identity. You know, there's not a whole lot of actual running going on. It could be. It could be 10 minutes or it could be three hours depending on the weather or the energy or whatever, but it is still being outside.

It's still moving. It's still the fitness, the bone density, like all that stuff. And Kush, you can see when he is exercising, you know, and I think like, You know, research would support this. Cognition [01:22:00] goes up. he doesn't become some mathematician or something, but you, his cognition goes up. You can tell, he can comprehend more.

He can remember more. He'll like, he'll throw in some random, hilarious one line joke, you know, you're like, Dad, where the fuck did that come from? You know, you know, you're like, Dad, where the fuck did that come from? Out of nowhere. Um, And it's great. It's really important. like, how long does it, but then you find the next thing and you keep , I can imagine maybe someone's in memory care some of these memory care facilities, they have a great like Finston, you know, kind of outdoor space 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. 

Travis: pads, 

like. Man, get people outside, let them walk, let them move, 

let them, let them do it alone if they want to, and let them do it with someone, because that's a great, like, let them, who 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Hmm. 

Travis: it is? 

Find a person whose hand they [01:23:00] can hold and 

walk circles 

around this place, you know, and maybe they can't walk. Well, do it in a wheelchair, move outside, however you can do it. Um, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. 

Travis: I think, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. No, 

Travis: I think it's 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Alzheimer's is awful and it can take so many things away, but. It cannot take away the vitality and even the immediate dopamine rush that fresh air and exercise can bring you. So that is excellent advice that 

Whether it is something maybe as extreme as, uh, 

Travis: Yeah. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: know, going on a mountain bike, if one is able to, but even, even holding somebody's hand and going for a walk around an outdoor space, uh, 

Travis: yeah, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: should continue.

doing any of those things to the best of one's ability. [01:24:00] yeah. 

Travis: yeah. And that taught me, Kush, you know, and here I am, you know, much younger, you know, ideally sort of, you know, I have a lot of capabilities as an athlete, but man, dude, last fall I couldn't do anything. I mean, I couldn't, uh, my parents lived, Two hours away, like I couldn't drive and see him like that was really hard.

I couldn't, you know, after a while, the only thing outside I could go for a walk and then I could walk up this Hill, you know, I can see it out there and there's a great view. It's a really spiritual place I could go walk up that alone or with my dogs or with, you know, one of my kids or my wife or a friend. And like, that was huge. That was a huge part of my concussion recovery. Like, Yeah.

I want to be training. I want to be, you know, I want to be doing these, you know, VO2 max intervals. Like I want to be doing all this shit, but right now I can walk up this hill at a heart rate of about 100 and I can get to the [01:25:00] top and I can, I can. Do a degree view of this awesome valley and find some spirituality and, uh, connection and calm. and that was huge. I mean, that's like, that's what makes me feel like an age with athlete is, is, you know, finding that and being able to, you know, I kind of know in, in, you know, like, Anyone knows things are going to change.

Like man, there's going to be where like, I can't, you know, maybe my kid's going to have to take my bike. There will be a last time to go skiing. Like there will be, there will be a last time for everything. And sometimes we know it. And sometimes we don't, you know, but we're going to have to be, we're gonna have to be ready to navigate those things.

You know, there's going to be a last send. There's going to be a last time putting on your climbing harness, getting on that surfboard. you know, it's, here's the thing. It's really sad to think about, but also if we keep that in mind, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Yeah. 

Travis: get on that 

surfboard [01:26:00] and you're like, fuck yeah, I'm getting on a surfboard

and this may be my last 

time and maybe 

not, but like, I am going to love this. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Travis, this is an excellent segue. Uh, back to you now, I have a couple of questions for you. I want to start out by saying that Travis, you inspire me. I think it's, yeah, uh, the way you are leading your life to me is amazing. There are so many things you handle in the everyday. Right between your multiple careers, , you're still out there doing adventures, you're managing a family, you are, hosting this excellent podcast, the Travis Macy show, highly recommended, you are a managing your family's care, [01:27:00] your dad's care, and you are still writing books and you just came out with a new book.

So Travis, um, let us on to what might be your secret. Continue, you know, not just managing, but Like producing and progressing. 

Travis: Sometimes we hear like people accomplish something or book comes out or whatever. And, you know, at least me, I get, like, Oh man, that person, they must be talented or they must be, you know, from above or whatever. Like, you know, I don't know, a day in and day out. It's, it's mostly just like. Sticking with things and like doing your best, you know, and, and continuing to try even when things are hard, they are hard and they will be hard. And that's like, you know, that's just part of life. stuff's [01:28:00] hard, you know? Um, I don't know that I have any. Secrets really, um, there's no hacks. Uh, you know, if, if anything, I might say, like, tried to work hard at figuring out what my, first of all, defining success on my own terms. Number two, like, figuring out what is my game. Not what is the best game, you know, for him or her or like the social media person or Like what's my game? What works what works for me and my wiring and my, you know, psychology, my body, my, uh, my point in, in life, my family, um, trying to find that game And play it well, know And, and keep playing it and, and keep, keep bouncing [01:29:00] back, keep bouncing back, like, man, there's, you know, we see the things that we see.

And this is why, like, social media is so deceptive because we see someone else's highlight reel or their ideas or, you know, it's almost like an avatar. So, like, I, I don't look at. Social media because of these, I know it can have positive aspects, but for me, it's, it's not positive because that natural comparison game ~and the grass is always greener, you know, those kinds of things pop up.~

~So, um, I don't know if there's one secret or there's something that works for ~

~me. Like I I don't ~

~look at ~

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: ~Okay. ~

Travis: ~I don't scroll. I don't ~

~have a feed ~

~and I, ~

~I don't feel like I'm missing out on ~

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: ~Yeah. Okay. So let me see. ~

~Uh, ~

~well, Okay. ~

Travis: ~And I mean, ~

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: ~Okay. ~

Travis: ~Like, you know, luck. Like, ~

~luck. There's so much. We like to think that we control anything, everything. We try to control the minutiae of life. We try to, you know, man, the, the longevity, the biohacking, like, you know, all this. Stuff, know, like, yes, let's try to, you know, maybe influence, but like, we can't control stuff.~

~There is so much chance in life. There is so much ~

~that's out of our ~

~control. ~

~Um,~

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: I do notice that you do have, 

you do have an Instagram account.

Travis: ~for me, I think accepting being being with uncertainty. Yeah, ~no, I do. Yeah, I, well, you're right. I have, I mean, you know, this isn't a secret, but like, I don't put anything on there. Like I do a podcast and I have a production company and they post the reel on Instagram.

And, and that's how, that's how, you know, you could say like, maybe that's like or something. Cause it's, it's not me, but I, uh, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: No, that's great. I mean, outsource the pieces that 

Travis: at it. It's not my thing. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: are not important or take you away from, from [01:30:00] your, uh, from your purpose. 

Um, 

One other question I want to ask is, 

you are 

Travis: Yeah. Um, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: at public events, I believe, Travis. What key message do you hope non athletes or just everyday people take away from your story and experiences?

Travis: uh, you know, that specific message or the talking points, those are obviously vary from to event group to group. You know, I kind of, you know, tailor the talk to what's going on. Um, you know, one of the themes often is this idea of, uh, life's a team sport, you know, kind of this idea that we're, that we're in it together.

And that, that could be the things, your obvious team, your family, your friends, your, um, You're racing teammates, but even more so we, at least for [01:31:00] me, it works well to view like we're in this together as, as humanity, even as like competition, the competitors on the race course, uh, the, you know, for me as an endurance coach, know, the other endurance coaches who in some ways we might be competing for the same clientele, like. I still see them as, as my teammates in some ways, like let's, let's help each other. Let's work together. Let's learn from each other. Let's, you know, let's help athletes find really the best coach, uh, for them. Um, so that might be one of them. What, you know, again, my first book, the ultra mindset that was kind of these eight principles from endurance sports that are maybe applicable to business parenting life in general.

So, you know, that could be some of the, Some of the long answer in there, you know, there's a chapter about the, the stories we tell ourselves and how might we be able to have some choice about those and maybe even rewrite. There's some worksheets in there. How can we rewrite, uh, the [01:32:00] stories that we're, um, that we're telling ourselves, uh, motivations, you know, how do we tap into intrinsic motivation and or extrinsic motivation?

How do we, how do we balance those, uh, those things, um, together. So, uh, yeah, there's, there's been a lot of the, you know, I'm kind of always, I, I do some, some life coaching, uh, as well and, and more and more, and I'm always kind of jotting down ideas or, or questions or some of these, uh, some of these myths, you know, like the, I'll give you one of them and this is from my myth document.

Uh, this is called the myth of up into the right, higher, faster, stronger, better, wealthier winner. It's the American way, but as it turns out constantly moving up into the right. In all ways of life is an unsustainable Let's embrace change, [01:33:00] flexibility, and creatively seeking allostasis, or a new norm, when homeostasis, or the old norm, is Not available.

Uh, that might be one. And, uh, maybe let me, I'll share just one more. Uh, this is a good one for the married, uh, or, you know, anyone in a relationship out there, the myth that we need to change others. Nope. we want change, we need to change ourselves. Want more positive energy and good vibes from other people, put out positive energy and. Good vibes. Want more power and control? Stop ruling and micromanaging and 

start empowering and relaxing. Love it. Words to 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: live by and Travis, , so I have thoroughly enjoyed your newest book for new readers who want to learn about. [01:34:00] Some of the, some of these words that you have penned, should this start with one of your older books? Or perhaps I understand there's a book, a new book that you wrote that just came out.


Where should they begin?

Travis: You know, yeah, it's up to them. There's, so there's two non fiction books that are available in print or ebook or audiobook, and those were, um, The Ultra Mindset, that was the, First 1, 20 15. Um, again, that one is, is highly prescriptive. Uh, the one you were talking about is a mile at a Time, came out in 2023. Um, mostly memoir and especially, you know, if, uh, if someone is, you know, if, if. Cognitive decline has impacted you or your family or your friends or something that that may be a good start. Um, or if you're into adventure racing Eco challenge, etc that that tooks, uh talks a lot about those Um, and then the newest one, like you said, this is uh, this is my first fiction Project, uh, we'll see if it's if it's the last one.

I don't know but I just I [01:35:00] wanted to play, explore, you know, try back to, uh, again, I don't have really any secrets, but, but I know for me and playing my game, novelty and dynamism are really important. And that was, that was kind of this idea of exploring writing, uh, some fiction. So anyway, I came up with a novella.

~Uh, ~currently it's out only in audio book, uh, and that's on my podcast, uh, in serial form. So the Travis Macy show. Go to episode 180, and then I think for, it's like seven or eight episodes in a row, you'll, you'll get one chapter at a time, uh, for a very, it's very fictional, it's, uh, creative, uh, it's out there.

~This is not the book for everyone, uh, Kush, but I think if you're an endurance athlete and if you're curious about, uh, AI and how that might impact, especially endurance athletics. Also, if you're interested in, you know, some of this, um, psychology, uh, type of stuff, the, the, the good parts, maybe the dark side of, of endurance sports. Um, you, you might ~

~find that, uh, that that book, uh, is, is~

for you. Awesome. Awesome. Well, I 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: have enjoyed 

Listening to your podcast, Travis, you have such a, um, a variety of incredible guests and you ask excellent questions. So [01:36:00] I recommend everybody check out the Travis Macy show. I sense that people who listen to my show would also ~enjoy it. Listen to yours and talking of variety, maybe, maybe one last question before we end, Travis, you seem to do basically every sport I can think of in the outdoors.~

~Not only do you do all the racing stuff, you are familiar with rock climbing, you do it all. Is there one sport, Travis, that you, that you don't do, you wish you were better ~

Travis: ~a lot, there's plenty that I don't do. Like one that I wish I was better at, I think is one of your bread and butter sports. And that's rock climbing. Like I, I, I absolutely love it. I always have, uh, when I was in school at CU Boulder, you know, that's a good place to be into climbing. So, you know, I never got way into it, but, you know, climbed a few routes in, in Eldo or just, you know, I would ride my bike school up to those rocks on Flagstaff up on those switchbacks, you know, and do some bouldering, uh, or even just boulder in the gym or something. Um, I, I, I loved it. And it could, you know, who knows again, back to the view of a lifespan that maybe that may be, you know, who may, maybe I'll run too much and my knees will be totally shot, but maybe I'll be able to, you know, to get into climbing and, and, the phase I'm at right now with, with my kids and their sports and stuff, like kind of the climbing lifestyle.~

~And I live in a small town. There's not a, we have a teeny little bouldering gym that is kind of ~

~okay, but we ~

~don't, like, I want, I want, the ~

~spot, like, ~

~you know, ~

~huge~

~gym ~

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: ~yeah, the spot. Yeah.~

Travis: ~house, ~

~You ~

~know, ~

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: ~You don't need a gym man. You're in Colorado. You're in the middle of the Rockies.~

Travis: ~I know, yeah, there are, yes, there are rocks around, but I, what I need, I need the convenience of walking across the street and just being being in this, you know, huge gym with a bunch of like, you know, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm saying that I need to live in Boulder, but I don't want to live in Boulder.~

~So anyway, yeah, I, I wish, I wish there was more climbing in my life. Um, ~

~and, and maybe there will ~

~be sometime, you know, who ~

~knows. ~ It's been an. Excellent conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Yeah, Kush. Thanks. Thanks so much. I, I appreciate you. Like I said, I've become a fan of, of your podcast. You've got, uh, you've got so many good ones out there. Um, man, Lynn Hill, you tracked down Lynn Hill and got to like, how cool is that? Especially in the, in the climbing world. Let me ask you one quick question.

Like, what have you learned? You know, your many episodes in now, like are some of the themes that you've learned 

being a podcast host so far? 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Uh, sure. Well, 

you know, it goes back to why I started the podcast because I wanted to learn from enduring athletes, such as yourself, on what are some of your [01:37:00] secrets to continue chasing your dreams and defying limits. And I think that's been the gibb That's been the biggest gift is, uh, is tapping into the lifestyles, the routines, the mindsets.

And, uh, thanks to that, I've made some changes in my life and, uh, I am finding new joy, some new vitality. I'm finding that I am able to take some risks now that I didn't want to before. I actually just, just last fall, I moved into a van. 

So I'm living in a van now, full time. 

I am, I am, 

Travis: yeah, 

buddy. 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: yeah, I am hosting this podcast from 

rural 

Nuevo Leon, Mexico.

Posted up here, 

Travis: Oh, 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: up here since Christmas. 

Travis: Leo. 

I've done 

adventure races there. 

That 

kush_1_01-21-2025_130127: Oh wow. 

Travis: beautiful 

land, [01:38:00] incredible people. Um, it's awesome.​