#55 Impossible To Possible: How Ray Zahab’s Adventure Mindset Helped Him Overcome Cancer and Redefine Resilience

“During chemo, I could have stayed on the couch binge-watching Netflix. Instead, I chose to walk 500 meters, then build from there. Every step reminded me that I could still fight and get stronger.”​

In this episode of The Ageless Athlete Podcast, I sit down with Ray Zahab—a professional adventurer and ultra-endurance athlete who has crossed some of the world’s harshest environments, from the Sahara Desert to the Arctic tundra. But Ray’s most inspiring journey isn’t just about extreme landscapes; it’s about how he used the resilience forged in those adventures to overcome some of life’s toughest challenges, including a battle with lymphoma.

Ray shares his incredible story of transformation—from a pack-a-day smoker in his late 20s to one of the world’s most accomplished ultra-endurance athletes. He opens up about his fight with cancer, how his mindset from years of extreme expeditions helped him navigate treatment, and the life lessons he’s learned about resilience, purpose, and living fully.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

🌍 The Mental Strength of an Adventurer

• How Ray developed resilience by running across deserts, trekking solo in the Arctic, and embracing challenges most would avoid.

🩺 Overcoming Cancer With Grit

• How Ray applied the same mental toughness from his adventures to his cancer treatment, including pushing through chemo with small daily wins.

🚭 Breaking Free From Smoking

• Ray’s story of quitting smoking in his late 20s and how it became the catalyst for a complete life transformation.

💡 Life Lessons on Resilience and Purpose

• Why Ray believes limitations are 90% mental and how shifting your mindset can unlock incredible potential.

Key Takeaways

1. Focus on Small Wins: During cancer treatment, Ray started with 500-meter walks and built from there—proving that progress begins with small, consistent steps.
2. Reframe Challenges: The same mindset that carried him across the Sahara—breaking big goals into smaller milestones—helped him push through chemo.
3. Resilience is Built Over Time: Quitting smoking taught Ray that transformative change starts with a single decision.
4. Adventure as a Teacher: Ray’s expeditions taught him patience, problem-solving, and how to embrace discomfort—skills that helped him in his fight against cancer.

References Mentioned in the Episode

1. Impossible2Possible (i2P): Ray’s nonprofit that inspires and educates youth through adventure. Learn more here.
2. Running the Sahara: Documentary about Ray’s epic 111-day journey across the Sahara Desert. Watch here.
3. Ray’s Arctic Expeditions: Explore Ray’s solo Arctic crossings and his insights on endurance. Details here.

Connect With Ray Zahab

• Website: www.rayzahab.com
• Instagram: @RayZahab
• Twitter: @RayZahab

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Transcript

Ageless Athlete - Ray Zahab
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Ray: ~I, it's great to be here, uh, Kush, and I, I, you know, I live in, you and I were talking about this a little bit offline. ~[00:00:00] I live in Chelsea, Quebec. it is winter here. I know you're in Red Rocks right now. It's less winter where you are right now. Actually, I was just in Red Rocks. Uh, running, but um, what did I have for breakfast?

I didn't have anything. I had a snowshoe run. So I had, I was, I was joking with you before that I had oxygen for breakfast. And then I,

Kush: Yeah,

Ray: I tend to train a lot of my, I'm training for a couple of Arctic expeditions I've got coming up. And I tend to train in the mornings fasted. I just, I like that. I like the feeling. and as well, it trains my body to be able to go on a caloric deficit, which is what I'll be facing in the Arctic, um, when on expedition. So

Kush: sure thing. No, uh, sounds like you are in some way simulating actual conditions that you are going to face where you will often not have access to full meals and you'll have to train yourself to be able to move.

Ray: you're eating once, maybe twice a day, you know? So,[00:01:00] 

Kush: Yeah, yeah, no. Absolutely. I mean, the human body is so adaptable, right? And, uh, you know, we just have to learn how to push it the right way, which is why it's so great to have you on the podcast. let's start off by just asking you, Ray, uh, who are you? And, uh, what do you do for people who don't know who you are?

Ray: uh, my name is, is, is Ray Zahab and I'm a professional explorer. So I do expeditions all over the world. I've crossed close to, gosh, now it's close to 20, 000 kilometers. of the world's hottest largest deserts. Uh, as well, I've been to the South Pole unsupported, crossed Siberia in different locations, the Canadian Arctic numerous times. So, you know, in those expeditions I do unsupported. So, I, you know, I sort of get around, I guess you could say, hey, and, uh, as well, I'm the founder of a charity called Impossible to Possible, which takes young people between the ages of 16 and 21 on youth based expeditions all over the world that are 100 percent free of charge.

Kush: [00:02:00] Amazing. I was just in Death Valley last week. but I was crossing in a car, not on foot. And of course, you know, this is approaching winter. So the temperatures were fairly benign. You have crossed it at its most brutal. So, What is it about these wild and extreme environments? Like, yeah, like the Death Valley, the Sahara.

Yeah. , maybe the poles. what is it that keeps calling you back, Ray? Uh, what is it? Is it the physical challenge? Is it the mental battle? Or is it something just something else entirely?

Ray: know, you know, for me, Kush, it's, it's less about the challenge, although I suppose it's evolved over the years. I've been doing this 20 years. Um, maybe initially it was about the challenge, moreover, it's always been about being in extraordinary places. I mean, that's really what it's about for me. I, [00:03:00] I, I love to be in very remote places that really only your feet can It's an experience in a certain way and, um, further to that point, I, I love being in deserts in summer and I love being in the Arctic or colder regions in winter whenever possible on expeditions. love to be as autonomous as possible. Obviously, that's much harder in a hot desert. Super hot desert, especially if you want to make any distance. And I also love the concept and the idea of sharing what it is that I'm seeing and experiencing while I'm on these expeditions. With students around the world who typically are following my expeditions through live websites or social media, but also to anybody. That wants to follow along because it's not lost on me that I'm very fortunate. I get to do this for a living. I'm blessed to be in these amazing places. And so I try to share as much content from these places that I can.

Kush: The title Professional Explorer is probably [00:04:00] one that is not so common on LinkedIn. looking back, at what point did you feel that this was this moment that set you on this pathway of, of exploration and adventure?

Ray: Well, you know, it's process everything in life is a process, as you know. Um, and you transition and transform through that process. You were once in high tech and now you're living in a van. Climbing the great walls of the Southwestern United States. At this point, who knows where you'll go? I started out as a pack a day smoker, unhealthy guy, not the eight, not a typical sort of story of ultra endurance.

You hear a lot of these stories, I was someone who was approaching 30 and was very unfulfilled. No goals, barely got out of school, drunk all the time, smoking a pack a day, like I said, you know, without passion. And I have a younger brother [00:05:00] in fact, you'll appreciate this. He's an amazing climber and, uh, was an avid ice climber and mountain biker and canoer and runner.

And he just did everything. And I thought, guy is incredible. I've known this guy my entire life yet. At this point in my life, what I'm so desperate to find, because this is pre social media, I mean, forget there's no Instagram, you're not, you know, you're getting inspired by reading magazines or seeing something occasionally on TV. But to have somebody in your life, I mean, that's really where we drew inspiration from in those days was real life interactions. And to have this guy who I've known my entire life, have transformed his own life to become this amazing athlete and doing stuff that he was so passionate about, I thought, wow, I if I did The things he did, maybe my life would be different.

And that's kind of what started it all. It wasn't about, Oh, I, I'm dying to go mountain biking. know what I mean? It wasn't at all. [00:06:00] It was about being happy and having something that I was passionate about in my life. And I spent the first 30 years of my life myself out of trying new things, doing new things, taking risks, because I was so afraid failing or what other people would think or whatever, but I was in very short order, my brother taught me through the things he was doing that none of that shit mattered, that taking risks was worth it, stepping out of our comfort zone was worth it, and which a buddy of mine taught me this acronym, there is no fail, there's only a first attempt in learning, you gotta have setbacks in order to get ahead, and it, it was just it. eye opening experience. My life changed 180 degrees when I stepped outside with my brother, and I never looked back. That's how it all started.

Kush: That is quite, uh, let's say a transformation, you know, curious about your upbringing for a second here. So you grew up in this family of one sibling who was an adventurer. You, [00:07:00] on the other hand, chose a different path. Though at some point that changed, like you related. So I'm just curious as to how did your family instill some of these values where your brother went into one direction.

And then you were doing something else, but probably there was some intrigue, curiosity, maybe there was this constant source of inspiration, and you decided to change your lifestyle. So talk to us a little bit about, uh, whether some of this exposure to the outdoors was part of your early years, and then you kind of came back to it.

Hmm.

Ray: Well, I mean, it's sort of, I mean, I grew up, again, it's, it's almost an over analysis of just life happening, right? I mean, life happens, and then you, know, I, I grew up on a farm.

Kush: Hmm.

Ray: a lot, riding horses all the time, and taking care of animals, and baling hay in the summer, and helping farmers with their cattle, and that sort of thing. But to say, You [00:08:00] know, well, you know, I used to hike when I was a kid, and so I went back to it. That wasn't the life that I had, you know? I had a great childhood, but you know, I would say it was my brother, the exposure he put to me, to the sports that I'm doing, that actually sort of transformed everything.

Kush: What were some of those first steps? Right? Because I, I sense there's a lesson, there's a, there's a, there's a profound lesson here for others who are struggling with, let's say, a, a sedentary, uh, unfulfilled lifestyle. Maybe some bad habits where they can get some, um, some pull, uh, some early, early, early, um, early lessons on how to take those steps.

So talk to us about like, what have you learned. in your journey, like you said, it was a process. And, and what can the rest of us glean from that, from

Ray: Well, you know

Kush: out?

Ray: I gotta tell you, Kush, the, the, the hardest thing, not when you're in the process. Once, [00:09:00] you know, You, uh, flutter out on the board to get to paddle out on the board to get to a wave. on to the wave is the hardest part. Once you're on the wave, if you've got your skills together and things are in motion and the surfing gods are with you, you'll stay on top of the wave, right? But getting out to the wave, catching the wave, getting on the wave is kind of the hardest part, right? You as a surfer analogy. making that first decision, taking those first steps. I would say to people, that's where it requires the boldness and the courage to say, I'm willing to step out there. It's going to be uncomfortable. know what my first steps are yet. I don't necessarily know what the process is yet. I'm committing to this thing and I'm going to friggin start. And that's where, that's where the gold is, you know, is in doing that is, is taking those, cause then things will start to come together. know, it's like a bike.

Once you get it rolling, it's in motion. So, you know, you, [00:10:00] you gotta get in motion in order to make things happen. For me personally, I started out ice climbing with my brother. That was the kind of first things I was doing and I became, know, a pretty proficient climber. I could, I could lead a water ice four him and, um, with obviously him, you know, yelling at me all the time, tell me where to put the screw, what not to do, but, um, picked up mountain biking.

He was a mountain biker. I picked up my way and I became an avid mountain biker. Then I started racing mountain bikes. I raced internationally mountain bikes, and I went from mountain biking to reading an article about ultra marathons. which I had no wish or desire to do. My brother was an amazing runner, but I never saw myself as such and figured why run somewhere when you get there quicker on your mountain bike, you know, but I read this article about ultra marathons and that impacted on me that There were these people, [00:11:00] regular looking people that were doing extraordinary things.

That's the thing. Everybody's capable of the extraordinary in their lives. Like the great things that people achieve in their life are relative to them as an individual. They can't compare you know, their feeling and their accomplishment. with someone else. It has to be something that's very personal, that you love and, and gain a passion for. I read this article about ultramarathons, and it was about a race in particular called the Yukon Arctic Ultra. I entered this race wanting to go and learn what these people in this magazine article were learning about themselves. And not only did I finish this first 100 miler, but I won it. I thought to myself, I'd never won anything physical like that my entire life. I was like, imposter syndrome. There's no way I could have won this. I must've took a wrong turn. But I hadn't, and I did. , it opened in my mind the potential that every human being is capable of [00:12:00] so much more than they think mentally, physically, emotionally. And that set in motion what I would do for the rest of my life. I would continue doing ultra marathons, because I had no idea how I did it. I'd never ran a 10k road race, yet I was able to go and do this thing and push myself beyond my limits. Any possible limit that I personally had. And I realized in crossing the finish line, and it wasn't a Ray thing, but it's a human thing.

Like we all have this amazing ability within each of us to achieve great things in our lives if we're willing to go after it. so I started doing ultra marathons after that. And that was my jam. And I was learning from, I I've, I've joked, but it's true. Running became my greatest teacher. It taught me things about myself and the world. And human beings in general that I would have never otherwise had the honor of learning. then that led me to running across the Sahara, know, which was the start of my expedition career.

Kush: Amazing. a bit of ice climbing and exposure to the outdoors combined with this [00:13:00] race and this, I think, magazine article that captured your fascination that, uh, was probably a great trigger for you to set out on this path. One other thing that I sense from your, uh, From your story is that, you know, many people who are struggling with, let's say bad habits, right?

Unhealthy lifestyles. And I think the common advice is, Hey, if you're smoking, just try to cut it out. Or if you sit at the desk all day, get up and do something else. But I personally think that is, that doesn't yield to good results. I think what does yield to long term results is replacing those bad habits with something else, which is maybe just equally addicting, but so much healthier.

Because maybe in your case, you know, you had these bad habits, but once, uh, the outdoors and, and running and being able to, uh, uh, exploit, let's say your, your body's [00:14:00] capacity took over your senses, I sense that the other bad habits may have faded away because, because you had no capacity. You were out there 

Ray: I think I just found something I loved and rather than it being a replacement for something else, it was just more consuming because I loved it. I mean? Like I had something that I was. For the first time in my life, excited about, passionate about, that I could get out there and get after it, and, and, it's in the same, you know, realm now, like these expeditions that I do, I've done 40 expeditions all over the world, it never gets old to me. I start planning the next one, I'm getting the gear ready, I'm getting ready for something in the Arctic this year, and I'm planning the gear right now. so stoked about the gear, like I love all of that aspect of it, and it's like being a kid, you feel like you're a kid again, you know, and so that passion, [00:15:00] think, you know, it has to be organic and authentic to use way, words that are way too often used, but it has to be in the individual, you have to really, Want to do these things, you know, 

Kush: you have done a number of, yeah, uh, exemplary, trips all over the place. It might, Be really fun to dig into a couple of those just to get a sense of some of those Environments that you're immersed in You know, one of the ones that I learned about is your crossing of the Sahara Desert You did that a while back and What stands out from that experience maybe tell us what is that thing that you did And maybe, uh, also a little bit about some of those challenges and lessons that, uh, came out of it.

Well, [00:16:00] there

Ray: the Sahara Desert in 111 days. I was the subject of a documentary film made by Matt Damon and James Mall, which was used. a way to raise awareness and funding for the water crisis that exists in North Africa. it was the first major expedition for me and the fact that I was able to reach the Red Sea after 111 days crossing six countries with these two absolute legends of ultra running, the fact that I could run shoulder to shoulder with these guys all the way, make it to the Red Sea, our hands go into the Red Sea, was not lost on me again that, and it was a reminder because I learned this in the Yukon years before, we underestimate ourselves.

Like we're all capable of something extraordinary. But beyond that, you know, I also learned about my capacity and voracious appetite for wanting to learn. So, unlike you, who probably has multiple university degrees, you seem like a really [00:17:00] smart guy, you know? So, for me, I got out of high school. I mean, I swear, dude, they graduated me to get rid of me.

This was before computers, right? So you could write them out and get rid of them. I dropped out of college. You know, community college. And I, I didn't finish my studies there. And I, so, just never felt, I thought I was dumb. Maybe I am a little bit, but I thought I was really inca ina unable to learn. And what I learned in the Sahara as we were making our way across it on this adventure, that I had this absolute, uh, you know, insatiable desire to want to learn about the culture of the area. Economics, agriculture, uh, archaeology, all of it. And we were learning about all of it as we made our way.

And I thought to myself at the end, we became like family. As a matter of fact, the leader of our expedition, Mohamed Iqsa, [00:18:00] Tuareg from Niger, has been to my house in Chelsea to stay, you know, and so we gain knowledge from people that we became like family with. And so they were teaching us so much, and in the lessons of the Sahara, there were so many things to pull from it. what I left the Sahara with was this light bulb where I was like, Wow. You know, on an adventure, when we're out there, our minds are opened, you know, when we're outside, our minds are opened up for some reason, or when there's a story to tell our minds are opened up. So, you know, I want to start something. And with my buddy, Bob Cox and my wife, Kathy, we started this organization called Impossible to Possible shortly after the Sahara. And the goal of Impossible to Possible was to create. a foundation, an organization where all of us would be volunteers and we [00:19:00] would create youth based expeditions for 16 to 21 year olds to a group of four or five, 16 to 21 year olds, once or twice a year, different groups some remote part of the world.

And they do their own running the Sahara adventure, but they would learn about a specific subject. was attached to the region that we were visiting. So we were in the Amazon jungle studying biodiversity. Phoenicia studying access to water. The grand staircase in Utah studying the rise of the dinosaurs. studying access to health care, all of it, and so on and so on it goes. And so, through that, we created a learning opportunity, not just for the kids that were on the expedition, but for the 60, 000 students that might be around the world following the youth based expedition as it happened. What did I learn in the Sahara?

I learned to have a passion for learning and teaching, but in a different way than I never thought possible.

Kush: is no better classroom than the [00:20:00] world out there and no better substitute for learning than being immersed in those places, those people. yeah, I know it's amazing that, you know, you, you've carved this degree for yourself in the outdoors. And, uh, if, if, If just more of us had the chance or maybe the will to go and see things out there, I think, uh, it might, uh, awaken this, uh, latent desire and sorry, but I come, I live in this country where the majority of this country, I think still does not have a passport.

So I think, uh, uh, Americans are not doing themselves, uh, you know, a good service by not availing themselves of these opportunities. You. Across the Sahara desert. So I just want to put a pin in that for a second. Um, 4, 500 miles, right? That's like, I don't know. That's like a [00:21:00] 45 ultra marathons, you know, that you, you guys covered.

So tell us about like, how much time did it take? And I also want to hear about maybe, maybe one epic story where, well, let's say, um, Maybe you felt you pushed yourself so far, or, or maybe there was, because I'm sure like for all the knowns, there were just that many more unknowns that you encountered.

Ray: Stuff happened every day. Uh, you know, it's 4, 500 miles, 111 days. So, you know, uh, it's roughly about 40 miles a day, give or take, um, average, but you know, there'd be weeks where we'd be running through sand dunes. I mean, some of the more, there's the cultural application.

There's the cultural, uh, aspects of the expedition that were the most fascinating people we met along the way, et cetera, very small nomadic communities. Out in the middle of the desert, not on any map, crossing Libya, all of Libya. I mean, you just, you can imagine like seeing all [00:22:00] kinds of crazy stuff there, but I think nature in a lot of ways and the power and the immensity of the Sahara desert was probably the most, um, incredible thing. And what I mean by that is, for example, at one point we were running along and it was windy. We decided to set camp and were in these dunes. And by next morning, the wind where we were shifted all of the sand and that's underneath that sand were these stone hide carving knives and arrowheads

Kush: Whoa.

Ray: from 10, 000 years ago, 10, 000 years ago when the Sahara was a lush and green place. we're in the middle. We've been running for weeks in sand all of a sudden here we are in a place where there was once animals all over the place, right? Not only [00:23:00] that, there was another day where Charlie and I were running along and Kevin and I said to Charlie, my eyes were like, our vision was fading cause we were just chronically exhausted.

I said, it looks like a forest in front of us. Like we're in the middle of the Sahara in the middle of sand dunes. been running forever. Forest in front of us. He said, it can't be, it doesn't make any sense. And we got up to this forest, Kush, and it was a petrified forest, huge tree trunks. All of them toppled on top of one another. big area, I can't remember exactly how big, maybe an acre or two, just trees that were fossilized. I thought, nobody's going to believe me this. And so I grabbed two pieces of this stone. And I think it was that we were about four or five kilometers from our next resupply. And I brought these with me so that I could bring them home and show them in schools and all this crazy [00:24:00] stuff like that.

You know,

Kush: I think many of us will be curious about, let's say some of the more, uh, corporeal aspects of this expedition as you're planning it. So, um, okay, how are you staying fueled? What are you eating and, and, and giving yourself the nutrition to run for that distance for that long? How are you sleeping?

And then, um, The extremes of that place. I have not been to the Sahara. How did you adapt to the extreme heat?

Because you were doing it in the, in the height of the summer.

Ray: no, that was, Sahara was in winter,

Kush: Ah,

Ray: friggin hot. Um, I'll, I'll say What I learned physically throughout my career, it's evolved because the crazy thing is this, as I've gone further into my career, things have gotten more [00:25:00] difficult because, you know, deserts like the Namib Desert, or, you know, these were much more complicated and difficult, even though shorter, much shorter to cross in a lot of ways, because I was going for very extended periods of time without support in a lot of these other deserts, in the Sahara, we were well supported, you We had a long, we were out there for a really long time.

It's the longest thing I ever did. This is the Sahara, The body is an amazing adapting machine and it will adapt to the situation you put it in such to the extent that all of my training programs for every one of my expeditions is based around and adaptation. So what I learned in the Sahara, and we were, you know, we had a crew making meals and stuff and a sourced in the Sahara. Amazing agricultural geniuses living in the Sahara because they're growing tomatoes in the sand. You learn, and your body learns, how to [00:26:00] adapt to the situation that it's put in. Expeditions sense the Sahara, like crossing the Atacama Desert. North to south, middle of summer, 800 miles. Dry, its place on earth, limited resupply.

It was me solo with my backpack and I would get a resupply two of my buddies every 20 to 50 k. That's it, you know, somewhere in that range. And I did to 80 KA day. Hardest cr, hardest project I ever did was crossed the outta cama desert because the environment was, was so brutal. It was brutally hot across in the middle of summer. brutally hot, extraordinarily dry. a lot of food options out there. Um, and I had to be able to process and use whatever calories I could get on board. that we were able to get. Conversely, on an Arctic expedition, and I'm in minus 60 in the winter in an Arctic expedition, I'm completely [00:27:00] self contained. So I have with me everything I need to survive and live in the Arctic is pulled behind me in a sled. And so I'm able to control my nutrition that way. So I prefer when I'm doing Arctic expeditions to move to a very high fat diet because it keeps me warmer. I'm processing more calories with less weight, it's more caloric dense food, and it's less weight in the end, because you're nine calories per gram, so you're able to get away with, um, you know, you're able to get away with, with pulling more food in that sled if it was all carbohydrate and protein, if you dig what I'm saying.

So I have to adapt my body. to a super high fat diet before going out onto an Arctic expedition. So it's all about the processing, processing, adaptation, et cetera. And these are all things. you learn, um, and your body learns through adaptation, as we [00:28:00] did in the Sahara.

Kush: The crossing of the Atacama desert, uh, like you said, uh, the, the toughest thing perhaps you have, undertaken and you did not have a lot of support. So it was you running solo. I'm curious if either on that trip or another trip where you, you felt perhaps you had pushed things too far.

Ray: Oh, many times I've felt that. Many times. Um, I have, uh, you know, been to the brink, but you know, lookit. Maybe when I first started doing expeditions and adventures, I would say that I'd be out there and be really hard, and I'd be like, oh my god, this is like, so hard, and blah blah blah. Now I'm at a point in my career where I'm like, the hell?

I chose. It's the contract I signed up for. I chose to do this. Nobody forced me to do it. I'm [00:29:00] so lucky that I get to be out here doing what I do. Yes, it's hard, but that's part of it. It's part of the deal. And so I embrace it instead. So do I think to myself ever? Oh, I've gone too far. I've pushed myself too hard.

Maybe in the earlier days. Now I try not to let myself get there. And I think I've got like a, like, there's a, like a, It's almost like a switch of experience after 40 expeditions that enables you to recognize that maybe you're pushing it a little bit too far. Does that make sense? You know?

Kush: Sure. No. Uh, you have been, uh, uh, accumulating lessons

Ray: Yeah.

Kush: with every successive one, and you've been, you've probably created a process where you can get, um, learnings from those lessons because, well, an experience isn't a lesson until you do something about it. And, uh, is there a process, uh, Ray that. where you internalize some of [00:30:00] these things.

Is it like a, like a subconscious thing? Or, uh, let's say you have a certain thing that may have happened and you're like, Hey, you know what? I, I, I had heat stroke or I had dehydration and next time, next time, this is, this is, uh, how I would do things differently.

Ray: First attempt in learning. what I said. It's a fail. Like, you fail, but it's your first attempt in learning. I've had four or five of those 40 plus expeditions I've done go completely sideways various reasons. And I've learned through the process. Very good at recognizing what I did wrong, how can I improve on it so hopefully it doesn't happen again.

I mean, it almost seems common sense, but, like, you gotta remind yourself to do that. You're absolutely right. Like, but that's in everything in life. You know what I mean? It's in everything, it's not just in adventure. And the beauty of adventure is, a lot of times it mimics life, life mimics an adventure. You know, and so you're able to [00:31:00] pull what you learn from adventure into life and you're able to pull from life What you learn in life into your adventures, but hopefully the saying goes, you know, you learn from your mistakes, you know

Kush: Excellent, uh, segue here where life and adventure, they both have lessons. to offer one another. I wanted to talk about your journey with cancer. Do you feel comfortable talking about it?

Ray: So

Kush: Okay. Um, so, uh, first of all, uh, where are you with your, uh, cancer journey at this time of day? Mm hmm.

Ray: a rare form of which of a call it lymphoma, which is a blood cancer and I It of reared its ugly head for me in 2020. I was training for an expedition adventure. I was like, not [00:32:00] feeling myself. And as a matter of fact, for a while, I was starting to feel like I was sort of like, I don't want to say degrading, but I was like, not at my peak anymore.

And I thought, am I just getting old? I mean, I'm 55 years old. Right. So maybe, I mean, that age is part of it. Right. And, but then my wife was like, no, something's not right. Like there's, there's something wrong. Right. And story short. Through a series of tests and over the course of six months, they were able to determine, it took them a while to figure out what I had, this cancer that I had that basically, you know, was in my bone marrow was preventing my body from creating healthy red blood cells. My protein levels in my blood were extremely high, dangerously high levels of protein in my blood. And so it was affecting my ability to function, create healthy cells. Everything. And so I would have to go into six months of intensive chemo and monoclonal therapy in order to, know, beat this thing down into remission. [00:33:00] Punchline is I feel great, better than I have in years. I, I, you know, at the trails, I've tons of single track right behind my place where we live. setting times on those trails that I haven't done in 10, 15 years. I mean, I'm in amazing shape right now and I've got all kinds of expeditions on the go.

But during that six month process. going through chemo. I was allergic to the monoclonal therapy. So I would get really sick. And the way it would work is I'd have two days of monoclonal and chemotherapy. Then I would have 25 days off. Then I would go in for the next session and it would repeat itself like that for six months. And I made a decision. I thought to myself, you know, I've earned the right to sit on the couch, binge Netflix, eat a bag of chips for the next six months and get ready for chemo and do it again. But I decided, no, you know what? I want to get myself in the best shape I can. I want to tackle this thing head on. Every month I want to come out of it and try to feel less shitty. month than I do the previous month that I've [00:34:00] gone into the chemo. So I made a goal that I was, I, so I do two, two days of treatment. I come home and I'd be sick on the couch. then a couple of days and my wife would get me up. I'd start moving.

I'd go for a walk. I'd start out with a 500 meter walk. And that was my first day of training. And I'd start all over again and I'd get myself back up. to a point that I was feeling really fit and I would go somewhere in the world and I would do something with the approval of my doctors and all that stuff safely.

I would go and do something epic I did trips all over the place, all kinds of stuff. And I did this, I repeated this process every six or every month for six months in order to be in the best shape I could. to tackle the next rounds of chemo, but also to mentally prove to myself that I can overcome it. And then I would come out of this thing at the other end and be stronger than ever. And that's where I am now. And you know what? I'm in remission. And guess what? I never think about it coming back. I don't worry about it because it's too much good stuff. Cancer has taught [00:35:00] me that there are too many great things that happen each day in our lives. The day you, the best day you have is the one that you're six feet up and you're not six feet under. You know, like I mean, you know, you just gotta try and, experience is different. But you just gotta try and find something in that day. It's positive, you

Kush: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, every day, every day being alive and healthy is a gift and some of us have been learning that in a more challenging way than others. But your, you know, your story of or your experience of like taking that step with fighting and trying to, uh, uh, Trying to recover your health by going out and exercising and staying fit is maybe such a valuable lesson for us.

But I [00:36:00] can only imagine Ray, like, I don't know enough about cancer, but I believe that chemotherapy is, is traumatic physically and mentally. And I'm guessing, you know, you have your round of chemo and then you wake up the next day and you're feeling fairly brutalized. And.

Ray: dog.

Kush: and then you decide, Hey, you know what?

I want to make a choice here. I can, I can do Netflix or I can, you know, find my running shoes and, and, and go out.

It seems to me that just both this attitude that you had, which is, um, this attitude allowed you to go and exercise, which changed. Also, your mindset and your positivity and I think it might have actually helped in your efforts to fight cancer. So uh, tell us about like, maybe you went to your [00:37:00] doctors, you know, for your next round and they're like, Oh my goodness, you know, you, you, somebody who's going through this like, this, this stuff, uh, Regimen.

You seem that much more alive and positive. So, so tell us like whether this approach you had has, has been, um, sort of a huge catalyst in helping, uh, keep the disease at bay.

Ray: Yeah, I mean, look at I, you know, I believe that the, and I've said this before too, greatest challenges we face in life are 90 percent mental. The other 10 percent is all in our heads, right? I mean, you know, it's our outlook and it's the way we perceive things is in a large part of our reality, right? there were, I would go in for chemo and there were like, I, you know, I'm in Canada, so in different medical system, but I'm in, I'm in Canada, I'm in this huge waiting room. these people that are getting chemo for all kinds of various cancers, right? And I go in, I'm [00:38:00] waiting my turn, I got like the same number you get at the deli.

Think, you know, you take your, you get your, and I'm waiting for my number, I'm looking up at the screen, and I'm looking around me, there's all these people that I'm thinking that person is not going to be alive in another week or two that person I mean, I could have had it a hell of a lot worse a

Kush: Wow.

Ray: and it dawned on me one of those You know meeting rooms room visits that it can always be worse. It can always be worse So, you know, you've got to tackle these things. You've got to go at it. Now, there's nothing wrong with has their individual interpretation of the life they're living and what they're going through. That's the way it is. It's relative. Just like I said, the great things are relative to us as individuals.

So are the most difficult things that we will do in our lives, challenges we will face, health issues, et cetera, are relative to us as individuals. You cannot compare [00:39:00] yourself to anyone else. So these are only my own personal experiences. I certainly learned through the process of chemo and going through the cancer, that once again, it's solidified in my mind that we are capable of a lot more than we think we are.

Kush: Yeah, no, that sounds again, just a reinforcement of that, uh, that Keystone message. any other, Like life lesson you, care to share, uh, Ray on, on, on, on your journey with battling cancer. because, uh, many of the people listening to this podcast, you know, they are, uh, uh, maybe older in years and they have, uh, similar challenges perhaps.

Um, uh, what, what can they do when they're being, uh, when they're. When they feel overwhelmed by life's challenges, you know, either something as big as this or maybe maybe smaller, [00:40:00] but equally paralyzing

Ray: Well, I mean, look, it's, it's, it's have to look into your own life, you know, there, there is no magic, uh, or the, you know, the perfect words or the concept that's going to save the day. really has to be an individual decision to change one's mindset the situation that they're in from relinquish mode to attack mode, you know, and to fight not flight, you know, that's something that one has to find within themselves. You know, and it's a journey on that journey, you learn things, you know, and no matter what, unlike choosing to go and do these things or take on challenges or get off the couch, you don't have a choice, you know, if you're tackling a major health issue, you gotta treat it, treat it or die. That's what's gonna happen, you know, [00:41:00] so gotta be up for the challenge and you have to figure it out really quick.

Kush: Ray, you have been Adventuring for a long time, right? several 40 expeditions and counting and you seem just as buoyed and, and, you know, stoked for the next ones coming up. Um, you know, anytime in life when one does something for a long time, like let's say me, the rock climbing, right? Like you hit like these, uh, physical mental blocks.

Sometimes you feel like you're not improving. You know, you, you have been doing something for a while. Worse, you feel that, you know, you are declining perhaps, right? It's that much harder to get back to the same grades. Um, any things you have learned on being able to either, um, push back and, and, and continue to climb up the performance ladder or other ways to, to find joy in your activities?

Ray: you know, uh, obviously, you know, I'm, like I said, I'm 55, gonna be 56 very soon. [00:42:00] There are certain things that I've come to accept, you know, my oldest daughter, 16, I go trail running with her, she destroys me on the trails, right? But if it's 50k or 60k, it's a different story, right? If it involves adversity, um, heat, extreme cold, heavy backpack, tremendous elevation, technical terrain, whatever, maybe a bit of a leg up.

Uh, there are things that happen as we age, we gain knowledge, we gain patience, we gain sort of resilience in long efforts of endurance. We develop the ability to analyze and slow things down, right? That's one of the attributes of age. We may lose a little bit of our speed. We may lose a little bit of our dexterity.

But we gain in other places. like life general is a series of give and take. It's a [00:43:00] series of on and off. It's a series of light and darkness. A series of trade offs. is aging. So is being young. There are trade offs, and it's embracing the positives in that trade off. I worry about being two minutes slower on my trail tempo loop, let's say, than I was 15 years ago? Not really, I accept I'm 56, I'm not 35. I'm not going to run that loop as fast as I could have before, but I'm going to do it smarter. could do it more times. Thanks. what I mean? It's looking at those attributes which have improved age, like wine. no good when it first gets made. It's great when it ages, right? It's still wine. It's young wine or it's old wine. It's still wine in the bottle. But for some reason or another, it improves with maturation. So, so do athletes in [00:44:00] some ways. And people in general, we gain wisdom, you know?

Kush: how has your training changed over the years as well? Because like you said, there's some things you certainly do better at, but then certain things perhaps take more effort now at, uh, at 55 years young than they did at, let's say, 35. So, uh, what are some of these like hard won strategies that you've found, which have helped you again, maximize your performance?

Ray: ~Okay, hold that thought. I'm gonna come back and answer your~

Kush: ~Okay,~

Ray: ~Let me just give you one second. Gettin there with these chickens. good.~

Kush: ~You're not helping me, uh, curb my, my lunch hunger.~

Ray: ~What are you gonna do for, are you vegetarian? You're from San Francisco, you're from the vegetarian~

Kush: ~Uh, you know, you are astute. Um, I switched to eating vegetarian like seven, eight years ago. But, uh, but no, San Francisco is, is not, uh, as vegetarian as you would think.~

Ray: ~I've been, I've been San Fran a hundred times. I've done a lot of stuff with Apple and Cupertino~

Kush: ~Ah, right, you have, you have, you have. No, I will say that I used to be a pretty voracious meat eater until I moved to San Francisco and then, yes, the influences, uh, perhaps I found myself, uh, in, in the city. Ah,~

Ray: ~There's so much, there's so much there, you know, and, um, Well, you know what? I selfishly, I'm a Southern California guy. Like I are impossible to possible based in Whittier, outside of LA, my business partners from San Diego.~

~I've spent a ton of time. All right, we roast our coffee in Encinitas. I mean, I just love that whole area. And to answer your question, so you asked me about the training.~

Kush: ~yes.~

Ray: As I've aged, my training has changed. And I, this is, this is the, the main reason why. As we age, it's harder to get a physical response to the training that we're doing.

When we're young, you look at weights, put on muscle. we age, you lift like crazy. getting any stronger, right? So it takes. It takes a strategic approach to training in order to [00:45:00] elicit that positive physiological response that I'm looking for. most of my training has shifted to less be about time specific goals. And rather it's elevation specific goals that I'm running. So when I'm training for something, I'm looking at cumulated elevation in a week, not accumulated mileage, necessarily. training in much more technical terrain because I'm trying to elicit that response from my body, that it will adapt to this very difficult. of circumstances that I'm putting it through because when I go to Death Valley and try and cross it Completely off road in the middle of July that my body's gonna be able to do that and navigate that difficult terrain Easier so to get the physical response or to get the responses that I require in order to do what I do takes more time and effort, but I have to switch the strategy of how I get there

Kush: What about diet? Any things you've changed with how you eat, what you eat? [00:46:00] You talked about deficit training. Absolutely, uh,

Ray: training. So

Kush: yeah.

Ray: fasted. I do run around deficit when I'm training for something specific. I do It's kind of a two parter when I'm training for expedition I train for the expedition that I'm gonna be on based on the foods that will be available to me That's a big thing. So we kind of discussed that before in large part I eat a very healthy diet post cancer You know, I eat a Mediterranean diet, but you know, strictly so in that Mediterranean diet, I eat no processed foods, no simple sugars.

I mean, I, no booze, it's just how I choose. I mean, everybody's got to figure out what works for them, but what works for me is that very simplified, clean Mediterranean style diet, uh, abundance of fruits, vegetables, complex grains, blah, blah, blah, a lot of fish, a lot of chicken, I mean, there's just, you know, you're. There's only so much you can do to eat healthy. There's microplastics in everything we eat now. [00:47:00] I mean, it's crazy, right? Where we are, but I try to eat as healthy as I possibly can with an eye towards in remission as well with cancer. And it may come back. I'm juicing every day. You know, I do all these things that I, I research nutrition and supplementation like crazy I have for 20 years and so I'm very aware of what I need to do I the role in aging as well cannot be underestimated of enzymes prebiotics probiotics and enzymes in our diet are critical so eating an enzymatic diet if you will lots of fresh vegetables juice cold juicing fresh green juice these sorts of things where you're You You know, chickpeas, amazing.

Getting these, um, into our body that help to reduce overall inflammation is critical.

Kush: Ray, are you self coached or do you work with professional trainers?

Ray: So my brother and his wife [00:48:00] are really well known strength coaches. They work internationally with athletes, Olympians and NHL hockey players and all this. They do my strength training, otherwise I do my own, my own cardio, if you will, programs at this point. Because it's so specific what I'm doing now. And I'm kind of setting my ways. you know, I love taking ideas from other coaches and I do do that often. I confer with friends of mine who are coaches to say, Hey, what do you think of this? And get their impressions. But yeah, mostly self coached.

Kush: Also, you seem to do so many things, Ray. How do you make a living?

Ray: I, so I do multiple things. Obviously I'm supported, funded by various companies such as Canada Goose to help me to do the things that I do. Cango and Catula Osprey. Nord app, other companies that I work with, um, are just amazing people that I've built relationships with over the years. I do corporate speaking.

I have been for many [00:49:00] years, um, speaking to companies all over the world. Um, I guide, I have a guiding company and a coffee company called Capic One, K A P I K, and then the number one. I do all of these different things in order to facilitate this crazy job that I have. Feed my kids who are, you know, unendingly hungry and to support my charity, impossibly possible.

Kush: Well, professional adventurer and maybe, yeah, equal parts, uh, entrepreneur juggling so many things. And then right next to that, you stack up these, um, really resource and time intensive expeditions, which take you to all these, uh, far flung places. How do you balance, like, how do you? Yeah. How do you juggle all these aspects of your life?

Are you tightly calendared? What are some of those things you do to kind of keep it all kind of

Ray: No,

Kush: together?

Ray: I mean, I use the Google calendar now and then, but I, you know, [00:50:00] it's life. That's just life to me. I've always done this, you know, and so I just, like, you know, there's days where you're like, I just need a day away from the franticness, right? But at the same time, I thrive on the franticness, right?

So it's, it's just, it is what it is. And there is no real juggling. It's just, I, I wouldn't be doing what I do and loving what I love so much if I wasn't frantic.

Kush: Yeah, no, I can see that, you know, um, you have this voracious appetite for, for, uh, activity and, and, and maybe even dynamism. And, uh, okay. Yeah, no. So, uh, one, um, one other thing. Again, to kind of learn a little bit about your journey is, um, yeah, you obviously live with intention and purpose, right? There is, this may be some note star that is guiding and keeping it together for [00:51:00] you.

for someone listening who perhaps feels, uh, directionless, uh, any advice you could share on how can they find their sense of, uh, purpose.

Ray: well, know, you ever heard that saying, can't see the forest for the trees, right?

Kush: yeah.

Ray: We, we, um, we tend to overcomplicate things in our lives and, and put blinders on and prevent ourselves from seeing the things in our lives that are priorities or passions or whatever. or, or a sense of direction. And we prevent ourselves from seeing it with either negativity or with clutter or with, so what I would say to people is remove some of the clutter in your life and be able to. Not frantically try to find what's the thing that's going to drive you because you'll [00:52:00] never find it if you do that. You know, it's just it's a laws of the universe kind of thing, right? You know, you just have to be patient and you have to be, you know, I don't want to say process oriented, but you have to be willing to give in to the process a little bit and say to yourself, All right.

Hang on. Let me think about my life from where I am right now. What is it that I really want to do? Where is it that I really want to go? And those answers will come to you. If you keep an open mind to it.

Kush: In the last, let's say, five years or so, has there been a significant habit or routine or behavior that has most significantly impacted your life?

Ray: Um, has there been a habit that's most significantly impacted my life? I, you know, probably not. I would say that as I've aged, if you want to consider it a habit, um, [00:53:00] you know, when I was 25, I could drink a bottle of vodka, get up the next day and do whatever the hell I wanted to do right now, I have to be so, if I want to be at a hundred percent, which I want to be right now, I want to be at a hundred percent, then I've got to have. 100 percent investment in myself. So I would say my habit would be, although it seems like, you know, a T to beat the T toddler and, you know, whatever I prefer to feel good. So I eat clean, I sleep well, I do the best I can. So that I'm at my best when I go out in the field to do adventures or I'm doing stuff with my kids or whatever, that's my choice, that's what I choose.

So my habit would be, if anything is refining. consistently improving lifestyle.

Kush: Any key refinement you have made?

Ray: Well, just nutrition. Like we talked about already, right? It's like, you know, eliminating things that just, [00:54:00] I can't even have a drink. If I have a drink, I feel like shit the next day. So what's the point in having a drink? know what I mean? Like, I don't need it. So it's identifying those things and not being afraid to say, I don't need that anymore. You know,

Kush: Yeah,

Ray: I don't necessarily need it. Some people need it. I've never been a sweet tooth. I've always been a salty. I've always been, give me the bag of chips. You know, like I want the chips. So you like to. To eliminate some of these things so that I can feel better, be healthier, attack cancer if it comes back again, you know, continue doing what I love to do, uh, you know, and be able to perform years younger than my years, there's a price to pay.

And I don't mind that price.

Kush: sure. Um, well, uh, maybe one of the fun questions to end our conversation.

Ray: Okay?

Kush: talked about diet for a while and all, all the, all the things you've learned over time, but maybe what is one food way that you can eat every day?

Ray: Sal I can eat salmon every single day.

Kush: Okay. Any tips [00:55:00] on how to get the best salmon? It's such a, such a controversial thing these days.

Ray: anymore.

Kush: Yeah. Yeah.

Ray: food? Go get some organic vegetables. It's filled with plastic. I mean, there's nothing.

Kush: No. No.

Ray: what? I do the best I can. I, you know, I get in Canada, you can still get wild Atlantic especially in Quebec, wild Pacific salmon. I do the best I can. all you can do. I'm not going to get hung up and uptight consistently. I haven't gotten millions of dollars to constantly buy, you know, this, that, and the other. That's the purest and best. I do the best I can. I get my vegetables from local farmers. I do the best I can. And that's all you can do.

Kush: How do you cook your salmon?

Ray: How do I not cook it would probably be the more relevant question. I, you know, I grilled any, any way, you know, baked, but if you act like, you know, if [00:56:00] you, I'll ask you the question. So you're on a desert island, you can only eat one thing for the rest of your life, three times a day. Same thing for the rest of your life.

What would it be?

Kush: A really colorful vegetable and grain bowl.

Ray: Okay. Yeah, but it's gonna be the same grain bowl every day.

Kush: If it, yeah, sure. If it's one thing, yeah.

Ray: and things like that.

Kush: quinoa, farro. I love farro a lot.

Ray: too.

Kush: I love chickpeas to throw in. I love chickpeas every day. Avocado, um, nicely, um, marinated kale

Ray: Mm

Kush: massaged kale

Ray: hmm.

Kush: and then yeah, whichever other, uh, you know, cruciferous or other kinds of fruits and vegetables you can find.

Ray: See like that's it. That's how it is with salmon for me. I can't it doesn't matter how it's made. love it Well, actually even more than Sam would be Arctic char, [00:57:00] which you're probably not

Kush: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't. Yeah, sure. Yeah,

Ray: that there's a place in the Arctic that I know, and I've had it there in the Arctic. So now it's kind of like, I can't buy it in a store. Like that, that is where I'm really picky. You know,

Kush: yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, I, I love seafood. Like I'm a vegetarian, but Borderline pescatarian, and my one weakness is sushi, and, uh, if you haven't done this already, next time you're in Vegas, they have the best all you can eat sushi buffets for like less than 40 bucks. You can order good sushi off the menu.

Um, Ray, um, yeah, maybe a fine question, um, what has been the best use of, let's say, 100 in recent memory?

Ray: hmm. What has been the story?

Kush: Uh, best use of a hundred dollars, or Canadian dollars,

Ray: okay.

Kush: recent memory.

Ray: [00:58:00] US, what's the best use of 60? That is a really good question. Nobody's ever asked me anything

Kush: Ha,

Ray: before.

Kush: ha, ha.

Ray: use of 100? I would say You know what? I would say this is gonna sound crazy, but it, cause it's the most one in recent memory, my oldest daughter and I had a couple of days away and we decided that we were going to go to Palm Springs, Jacinto State Park and to, um, of course, one of your places that would probably be the favorite is Joshua tree. And so we were going to go spend a couple of days there and, and just, you know, do some hikes and all that. And we did the hike from the cactus to clouds, but to the. Rangers, you know, so we went from desert we said, okay, we wanna go from the art center, whatever that is there. You know, the raid in the desert parking lot to the ranger shelter with stops and taking time to take photos and lunch and everything.

We wanna be there in five hours, you know, no more than [00:59:00] that. Let's get there in five hours, then let's have lunch. at the, at the, you know, the big thing. And then let's take that tram down.

Kush: Uh.

Ray: And we had, I had no idea there was this huge tram there. Like, you know, I had, I thought I was picturing like the ones we have were like, you know, for skiing, the little one that holds like six people. But this giant thing that rotates and just the fact that we get to the Rangers. Uh, shelter, and then, you know, we go up there, have lunch together, and then we get on this huge thing, and everybody's stoked to be on this thing. It was such a great memory made. with my daughter that I know she'll never forget.

So all in that day was probably about a hundred bucks. So I'd say in recent memory, that's the best hundred bucks I've spent.

Kush: Um, that sounds great. I have been to Joshua Tree a bunch, like you guessed, but, uh, I don't think I have discovered this, uh, this, uh, new kind of transportation [01:00:00] that they have, uh, that I will have to check out next time.

Ray: it, it's it, that's in San Jacinto, in San

Kush: Ah.

Ray: Park. So you go

Kush: Yes.

Ray: of Clouds and you come down. Yeah.

Kush: That's right, that's right.

Ray: the

Kush: I know you are a

Ray: Tree. The next

Kush: I know

Ray: Joshua Tree.

Kush: Oh, got it. Okay. Got it. That's probably why I had not heard or missed it. Ray, I am also an obsessive coffee lover. I am still slowly sipping through my morning cuppa. How do you like to prepare your cup?

Ray: I have a Marzocco GS3. I love espresso or ristretto. It's my

Kush: Uh, sure.

Ray: Um, I have favorite coffee. houses across the U. S. that I love, but we roast our own beans. It's all organic. It's

Kush: Thanks.

Ray: fair trade. It's all small farmer, small co op. We'll make sure you get some. And, you know, I, I'm not as fussy on the new wave of coffees, the lighter roasts.

I'm not as crazy about it. I don't like that sour [01:01:00] or too citrusy. I prefer a darker, but not burnt, dark chocolate flavor, but AeroPress is fantastic also. a really good, uh, you know, Chemex, a pour over. really nice. I actually prefer the Kasori to the Chemex

Kush: Ah.

Ray: a, you know, metal filter. And so you still get some of the oils.

Kush: Yes.

Ray: I'll use French press, you know, G good old fashioned GSI, French press, bring that thing. I bring it. I don't give a damn that it's extra weight in my Arctic sleds. I'm bringing coffee and I'm bringing the French press because he can't have it. No, we have a, we have a with our company. No coffee, no Expedition.

Kush: I'm going to steal that hashtag, Ray. And, you know, along with like those two things, you know, maybe that little, uh, you know, that, that hand grinder, you know, that thing.

Ray: absolutely Absolutely.

Kush: Amazing, Ray. Hey, so closing off, um, [01:02:00] where can people find your coffee if they can purchase it online? Yeah.

Ray: thing. Yeah, you can purchase online. Uh, in the US it's Capic One coffee, think believe it's capic one coffee.com. It's on Instagram, CAPIC one coffee, and then there's links.

Kush: We will, uh, yeah, we will put links to that.

Ray: and if they want to go on expedition, just go to my Instagram page, Raze Ahab. There's links. You contact me, we take care of you.

Kush: We will put all of those links. Ray, how can listeners of the show be of help to you beyond just trying your coffee and checking out your expeditions?

Ray: Wow. I mean, you know, follow along, just following along, engaging. I love that. I love meeting new people, conversing with people. Yeah.

Kush: Ray, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you for sharing all of these stories and insights.

Ray: Thank you so much, Kush. It's great. Great to be [01:03:00] here. An honor to be here.

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