#52 Endless Summer: Behind The Scenes from a Surfing Classic, and Wingnut's Proven Formula for Staying Active, Balanced, and Stoked at Any Age

Robert "Wingnut" Weaver, is the star of Endless Summer II and one of surfing’s most iconic longboarders. Wingnut takes us behind the scenes of the movie that shaped surf culture and shares timeless lessons on living a balanced, joyful, and active life.

Whether you’re a surfer or simply someone seeking inspiration, this conversation is packed with practical tips and stories that will leave you feeling energized and ready to ride the waves of life—no board required!

🌊 Stories from Endless Summer II

• Behind-the-scenes moments from one of surfing’s most beloved films.
• Wingnut’s most memorable (and hilarious) adventures on the road.

🧘 Wingnut’s Proven Longevity Formula

• The flexibility routines that keep him agile and strong in his 50s.
• Why he prioritizes eating local and seasonal foods while traveling.
• His approach to maintaining a balanced mindset and staying stoked through the decades.

🌎 Lessons from Surfing Greats

• What Wingnut has learned from icons like Jerry Lopez and Laird Hamilton.
• How their philosophies on health, longevity, and resilience have shaped his life.

🤔 Practical Takeaways for Listeners

• Why focusing on small daily habits, like stretching, can make a huge impact over time.
• How to cultivate joy and resilience, even if you’ve never surfed.
• The surprising connection between surfing and mindfulness.

References Mentioned in the Episode

1. Endless Summer II – The iconic movie that made Wingnut a household name in the surfing world. Go see it now! 
2. Jerry Lopez and Laird Hamilton – Surfing legends whose philosophies have inspired Wingnut’s approach to life.
3. Surfline Forecasts – A tool Wingnut occasionally uses but still values discovering waves the old-school way.

Connect with Wingnut

• Instagram: @thewingnut
• Website: WingnutSurf.com

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Transcript

Ageless Athlete - Wingnut - Robert Weaver
===

Wingnut: [00:00:00] fortunately I'm actually at home this week in Santa Cruz, California. I baked sourdough bread this morning first thing at 6 while, um, while I was preheating the oven. Took the dog for a walk, um, but didn't actually have my breakfast until all the bread was done. So that was around 7. 30 and I had just, I do it every morning pretty much.

A fried egg in a skillet with a tortilla on it. And flip it over, put a bunch of spinach in it, and fold it into a taco, and it's a little breakfast taco I make. So, it's either that or a vegetable hash breakfast is what I usually do. I try to get a few handfuls of greens early in the day, because I know the rest of the day is going to go to shit.

Kush: I have some experience with sourdough baking. The process doesn't begin until 24 hours if you have the starter ready. But if you don't have the ready, you know, it could be a week. So is this part of your life practice to bake sourdough?

Wingnut: Like a lot of people, I think I got [00:01:00] started doing it during the pandemic. A good friend of mine on the East Coast, she's a marvelous baker and she, uh, she gave me a full set of instructions. My neighbor Todd's father has been doing it with his father's starter. So my starter technically is about 75 years old.

So that's kind of cool. So during the summer when I travel too much, it just lives abandoned in the refrigerator. And like once a month I'll wake it back up, apologize, chuck it back in the fridge until I can get around and make it. So this is the first loaf I've made probably in about four months.

Kush: Most of us have started baking sourdough over the pandemic. Myself included. I baked, I don't know, maybe a hundred plus loaves. It was amazing. But then I was also very glad to be done with that hobby. fact that you have persisted, perhaps speaks to just your, I don't know, your consistency [00:02:00] and your approach to life that maybe once you start something you, know, you, uh, it with some thoughtfulness and, uh, you take it forward.

Wingnut: I'm still trying to get better at it, you know. When you learn something new, whether it's surfing, baking, golf, you're never going to get it perfect. So it keeps kind of the brain active, the challenge. What am I going to do different each week? It's part of it.

Kush: Agreed, yeah, no, uh, baking sourdough, for sure, it's not, a one time recipe hobby. I think it's a, it's a life pursuit. Perfect. Perfect. And, um, where is home? I see light streaming behind

Wingnut: in Santa Cruz. In Santa Cruz, I live close to Pleasure Point, so I can walk to my favorite surf spot. Convenient. I didn't think the first house I ever bought would be the last house I ever bought, but I'm a block and a half away from the water, so definitely can't [00:03:00] move now. Been in this house for 32 years.

Kush: Pleasure Point is a world renowned and popular enough source pod. So hopefully people will not get upset that we talk about the source pod and name. also happens to be Probably my favourite local surf spot, though Santa Cruz is not so local to me, in San Francisco. But, yeah, uh, I have loved the occasion trips I can make down there. And especially those trips where I've been lucky to, uh, have perhaps avoided all the other, uh, surf lovers, when I've been able to make it down there on a, on an off day, which doesn't happen very often. So, yeah. So you are at home now and also just got back from a surf trip when we were chatting, getting the schedule. I understand you are in Mexico. Yeah. Care to tell us [00:04:00] what kind of waves were you surfing and also if you were teaching others or was this a trip for yourself?

Wingnut: Uh, I was, yeah, working with clients and we were in the Punta Mita region, surfing La Lancha. We'd walk over to it every day from the house we were in, so it was pretty easy. Kind of play cat and mouse with the crowds when you see boats come in with lessons and leave. As soon as they leave, or actually, About an hour and a half after they get there, I start to prep and get ready to get in the water, figuring they're all going to leave by the time we, we get to the lineup.

So, I mean, it was great. I mean, never had more than eight or nine people in the water with us and, you know, waist to chest high waves. The water was still 85, no need for a wetsuit top or anything. So just hide from the sun as much as you can and enjoy it.

Kush: Sounds like a lovely getaway, even for yourself. You know, you were not doing this for your own surfing. You were helping coach others. Would love to get a little bit about your teaching [00:05:00] the kind of work you do. But before that, Vignat, I first learned about you when I first saw Endless Summer 2. I think I first saw that movie when I was getting into the sport myself odd 15 years ago.

And I think I've watched it. I think I watch it every five years. I actually watched it again this past weekend . And, uh, every time I see it, I think I find something new to appreciate about that movie. is, uh, yeah, it is such a wonderful movie. of the things I love about this movie is like so many, surf movies out there. Most of them are somewhat serious. You know, there's this worshipping of the sport, which is just. You and your team had fun with it, I think. Was that lighthearted approach, um, something you intentionally to the script or was that something that just came about [00:06:00] spontaneously?

Wingnut: Well, it. There was never at any time a script of any kind. It was more about how Bruce always sees the world You know, he's a glasses half full kind of guy. If you're not having fun, why why are you doing it? And although surfing is our ultimate goal at every, you know location we can find where any country any beach But it's it's about the travel.

It's about the people it's about, you know, okay It's kind of on shore today turn around and like go What does this, you know, town, country, region have to offer? So, hence the exploring, riding the, you know, going down the river with Nat Young. All the, you know, different adventures, you know, that's, that's kind of Bruce's thing.

And, again, we're not curing cancer out there, we're not saving lives, we don't have to be that serious about it. We're just trying to have fun and not have a real job for a while.

Kush: It is still so. how the movie feels so authentic and so, I'm trying to find the right [00:07:00] word. Like it seems so, yeah, it seems authentic, but then also so well produced. And maybe it is, yeah, maybe the magic of Bruce Brown and others and you know, you and Pat McConnell, you know, starting the movie. I do have to ask, there's not enough, not going to just talk about the movie in this show here, but. I do want to ask you maybe about, let's say one of the iconic scenes, which I thought was just really great. You know, there is this, um, moment in South Africa where you are in this like, classic, like vintage Jalopy kind of vehicle. You are being chased by lions and they grab your luggage and then the lions have fun with your wetsuits. And then there's a scene where I think you actually go surfing wearing that lion torn apart

Wingnut: Fortunately, the lions didn't take a bite out of the crotch or [00:08:00] something and I couldn't have worn it, but yeah, no,

Kush: did that

Wingnut: they,

Kush: come together?

Wingnut: well, we weren't sure if the lions were going to get anywhere near the dune buggy because vehicles aren't allowed in this hunting preserve area usually. So the guy that was running it ended up baiting the back of the dune buggy and he threw a bunch of dead chickens in my wetsuit.

So hence, it smelled like food, they attacked it, actually, I don't think there were any chickens in the wetsuit, were there? No. But it smelled enough like me that they, they yanked on it and took it away, but we found it, got to wear it, I still have it. One of the souvenirs from the movie.

Kush: It's such such a good one. I'll ask you one other one though. Um, there is this one scene later where you guys are in Australia and uh, I think you have maybe a fin encounter or something and you end up bloodied in the

Wingnut: Oh yeah, yeah, I, I got hit by my board in the, uh, in the forehead here, right, right at, right at crease, right at the eyebrow. [00:09:00] And here's the great thing about Australia. Um, it took five stitches. So they charged me 5. Yeah. In the States, hundreds of dollars. Right. But it's, you know, they've got nationalized medicine there.

So it was like you're just paying for the thread and a new needle. I mean, I just thought that was fantastic. And then our, our sound person, Bev Johnson, she, she took out the stitches with her toenail clippers later, about five days later.

Kush: I have a funny, uh, story similar, which, which actually might even surprise you with economy of the, uh, of the medical care. I was surfing in Sri Lanka a decade plus ago and I got hit by my own fin. I fumbled and, uh, just, uh, Got a little cut in the bottom of my nose. Funnily enough, parents never see me surfing. They happen to be there when that happened and you can just imagine. Yeah. Water, surfing, [00:10:00] blood, uh, nose damage. So yeah, I was taken by tuk tuk to the local, uh, little hospital in Oregon Bay and they stitched me up right there and that was like a public hospital. So they, I think they officially cannot charge fees. the only thing that person could do was just bring a little donation box. So I got like three stitches for free. I was like, amazing.

Wingnut: Well, I've also got a really good tip to pass on. If you are in a, you know, especially a third world country, where we tend to be when we're chasing remote waves, and you get hurt, something simple stitches right. Don't necessarily go to the local clinic or hospital, go to the nicest hotel around.

Kush: Ah,

Wingnut: They've always got doctors on staff, who are usually not doing anything, and they will more than happily.

Stitch you up, and while you're having a glass of wine or something. [00:11:00] I learned this when I got hit in the head in Tahiti 15 years ago. The, everyone recommended not going to the hospital because it wasn't the nicest, but they said that, you know, the Sheraton's got a lovely doctor.

Kush: amazing. Well, that's, that's absolute pro tip. When you were in that movie and you were traveling around, you the chance to surf with some of the legends of our sport. Uh, people like Jerry Lopez, uh, Laird Hamilton, Kelly Slater. I think, uh, in places like G Land and Endo and others. Curious, what did you learn those experiences?

And, and I'm, I'm wondering if there are any lessons from those sessions, you know, I, I, were over two decades ago, but any things that you learned. that you still carry with you today.

Wingnut: [00:12:00] Well, one of the things, you know, I got to meet a bunch of, you know, surfing legends, people that I would have hoped to meet over the course of my lifetime and career, and it was all Fortunately squished into an 18th month period, which was really neat. And having hung out with, you know, Robert August and Bruce Brown and that generation, the two generations that were before me, I realized that there's a different class of taking care of yourself over the years, different thought process.

I think Jerry Lopez is probably the best example of, of one who was an early adopter of yoga. And, you know, kind of Eastern philosophical thoughts. Um, I mean, there were a lot of drugs involved at the time, too. But what he maintained out of that period was a very strong yoga practice. And I think in the people that I've been surfing with, you know, I'm 60 now, and these guys are all between 75 years old, is the ones that are the [00:13:00] healthiest still have flexibility.

You know, it's, it's not strength so much that we need as we age, but the flexibility is, is very important and I've seen those that have lost it, you know, 275 year olds can be very different in their health depending on, to me, depending on their flexibility. So it was that, and I was fortunate that I wrestled in high school and did gymnastics, so I was always very aware of flexibility and tried to stay limber and then, you know.

Again, I ended up with a yoga practice probably about 15 years ago, and I don't go regularly anymore because my travel schedules are too difficult, but I at least have the, an awareness and the stretching fundamentals that I go through basically daily. So, that's my advice to most, is just stay flexible, and if you're not flexible, you can be, it just takes work.

Kush: Jerry Lopez is, uh, perhaps voice of consciousness [00:14:00] when it comes to that path of yoga and letting, letting that, uh, sort of be a guiding beacon as Jerry lives his life and inspires others. I actually did forget one thing when we started talking, which is, uh, many of the listeners to this podcast are not surfers, so they may not have heard about you.

So actually, I would love a quick intro, which is, Vignesh, who are you, and, well, what do you do? 

Wingnut: shoot. Yeah, I'm wing, I'm wing net. I was fortunate enough to be asked to be the star of endless summer to film that came out in 1994, uh, had a bit of a professional surfing career before and a better one after. And 30 years, I've been a private surf guide and coach. And I organize surf trips for folks to various destinations around the world, travel along with them, organize everything from [00:15:00] where we're going to eat, to where do we get the body work done, which waves, and I try to work with the local communities as much as possible, as opposed to bringing in outsiders.

So, I'm a surf concierge, if you would.

Kush: Did you star in any other surf movies?

Wingnut: I was also in On Safari to Stay, which predated Endless Summer 2, and then I had a series of longboard, um, instructional films called The Art of Longboarding, Art 1, 2, and 3, produced by some good friends of mine in Japan.

Kush: Vignat, many people, or let's say, there have been many movies in Hollywood which have had, , montages from the world of surfing. People in those movies are not always surfers, right? So, for example, you know, the famous Swayze movie Point Break. I mean, I don't know how well he surfs, but I know that there were doubles used for parts of the movie. You are perhaps one of the exceptions [00:16:00] where you were a surfer and start as another surfer in

Wingnut: Well, it was, started as myself, it was a documentary style film, so, it, the whole premise was that Bruce Brown, who made the original Endless Summer in 1964, was going to kind of retrace his footsteps and check in on many of the places that he had gone originally and see what, what was happening in surf culture 30 years later.

And so, basically, the rules for Pat O'Connell and myself were to just, alright, you go over there and say hi to Jerry Lopez and see what happens. You know, and so it was, it was really, uh, what happened, happened. There was no way to really set up a lot of things. A few things were like, okay, we think. You know, the waves are going to be good, let's try this, let's try that, or we know the waves are shitty, let's go drive back and forth in front of the signs six times.

So, you know, there was some, some work involved. I think we had, we had 4, 000 pounds of [00:17:00] equipment that we traveled with around the world. I think it was 75 pieces of checked luggage, not including our surfboard bags. And there were, um, At most seven people traveling, including me and Pat. So we were everything from, you know, the star in front of the camera to the guy that got Bruce's coffee.

Oh yeah. And he needs his cigarettes and I'll get the luggage and who's got the battery for the camera. We just did it all. It was, it, it was a really fun team that traveled around the world for a couple of years.

Kush: I'm guessing that being part of that movie Entourage likely opened some doors. However, traveling with surf board bags is hard enough even in Even now when airlines are familiar, I can only guess, the, the, the, the hoops you, you must have had to navigate in order to take all of that stuff plus surf gear, you know, and maybe not, not, not a very high budget, uh, movie

all over, uh, [00:18:00] the place. 

Wingnut: it was an, it was an interesting time and it, You know, being very, I'm the organizational one in, on the team, so I ended up getting to the airport first and trying to go talk to a manager and trying to check in on the side instead of having the seven of us in different lines and stacks of gear.

So it, it really helped me get on the front foot of travel logistics, which has worked out great for me last 

20 years.

Kush: ~How did you get ~

~a chance to the movie?~

Wingnut: ~Friend of a friend recommended me to Bruce. I'd never met him and I just got a call out of the blue. Said he wanted to meet me before he agreed to anything. You know, there were probably, probably a dozen guys that were qualified with the skill level, but it was, personalities have to match. We're going to be working too closely together for the next two years.~

~So I drove down to Santa Barbara the next opportunity I had and spent a few days with Bruce and he said, Alright, you're hired. So, that was about it.~

Kush: ~Nice, uh, that's the, uh, yeah, uh, maybe that was the screening process back then, you know, you met the right people and they saw you surf and they had a, I guess, a warm vibe connecting with the stars of the movie. I also understand that you didn't actually start surfing until you were an adult.~

Wingnut: ~Yeah, well, Uh, yeah, I'm ~

Kush: ~curious why. So, and then, and then also like,~ was there like an inflection point where once you discovered, you're like, Oh goodness, this is my life path.

Wingnut: well, you know, my, my, I wasn't even born in the United States, right? So I moved to the States when I was four years old, immigrated from Germany with my parents. My dad was a petroleum engineer. It was over there post World War II, helping rebuild refineries. So when we moved back to the States, my mom always wanted to live closer and closer to the beach.

So from Alhambra, inland Los [00:19:00] Angeles, we ended up in Irvine and then eventually Newport beach. And my mom would, we would spend as much time in the summer at the beach. And I learned how to body surf from a, from a 65 year old woman named Mrs. Harberman at Cronin Elmar beach. And, uh, You know, so body surfing was great.

I could do that all I needed and it wasn't until I was 16, 17 years old. Yeah, the summer between my junior and senior year that a guy moved in two doors up. He was a firefighter. He had a one year old kid, didn't know what to do with that. He's like looking at me mowing the lawn. He's like, hey, you want to go surfing?

I don't know how. So he's like, yeah, come on, I'll show you. And already knowing body surfing is such a gateway. If you can body surf, surfing is easy because it teaches you the timing, teaches you what, you know, how to catch a wave, how to wipe out, how to swim through a wave. So the comfort level in the water was always there.

So, he let me borrow a board for a few weeks and then my wrestling coach at Newport Harbor High School had an old, [00:20:00] uh, Chuck Dent, not Chuck Dent, huh, that's funny. Dave Sweet surfboard, and I, uh, yeah, learned how to ride on that, and the rest is history.

Kush: I started surfing when I first moved to San Francisco. This is like 2009 when I first got, uh, taken to a ocean beach with, uh, my friend Josh. And, uh, As I stumbled along in my own surf journey, I just realized it would just take me so much longer and I was kind of hard on myself. I was stubborn. I was hard on myself because I saw that some other friends, peers who started around the same time, they just progressed so much faster. And then it only hit me later that those kids, they grew up by the water in California and another friend in Hawaii. So even, so when they actually started surfing, Later, they had developed maybe that level of, uh,

Wingnut: A level of comfort with the ocean. It's an intimidating [00:21:00] beast, and for me it's the most important thing. When I have friends whose kids are, you know, they want their kids involved, it's like you have to get them comfortable in the water first. My one friend is like, I really want him to surf, but he just wants to boogie board.

I'm like, don't worry about it. He's water safe. He's riding bigger waves on his boogie board than you are on your surfboard. He's not scared of anything. When he wants to, when his friends will push him there, he'll do it. But the important thing is having them water safe and comfortable in the ocean.

That's, that's the trick. So that is the difficult thing for people who start later in life that don't have that background with the ocean. 

It's challenging. It's intimidating. It's intimidating.

Kush: yeah, yeah. Comfort with the water and then also the inscrutable of reading waves. That can take a long time.

Wingnut: That is a lifetime skill. It takes a lifetime to be somewhat of a master of it, and you'll see it all the time. You know, I watch people paddle for waves I know they [00:22:00] have no chance of getting. I watch people paddle for waves that I know are going to eat them. It's just enjoyable to watch.

Kush: Certainly. Were you athletic as a kid?

Wingnut: I'd have to say so. I mean, I think I was on a swim team when I was five or six. So, that developed a really good. basis there and then like I said in high school wrestling and gymnastics. So balance has always been good. You know, used to climb trees a lot when I was a kid, so

Kush: I'm just wondering if that, you know, that German stereotype maybe holds true. I mean, your, your family or your dad was in the armed forces, if I heard that correctly. maybe the, yeah, there's a stereotype of like discipline and hard work and, uh,

Wingnut: Yeah, no, there really wasn't any of that. My dad was older. He was 50 when I was born and of my peer group, I think I had the most, the [00:23:00] kindest, most gentle dad when he was just a great guy. Um, The fact that he smoked is what took him out early, so that was an easy lesson. But it's funny because Bruce Brown smoked as well, and still to this day when somebody lights up a cigarette, I take as big an inhale as I can because like, ah, reminds me of my dad, reminds me of Bruce.

And you know, people go, oh, it's not bothering you. I'm like, no, no, no, no. It killed the two people I love most in the world. But you keep smoking. You just keep going with it.

Darwinian principles, you'll be fine.

Kush: For sure, you know, it's, feel like living in, in California, it's, it's hard enough these days find , people who smoke, you know, somehow we have done well with this one thing in, this country. And then, you know, here, here you come along and there's, Poor like souls who are trying to hide and get their couple of like forbidden puffs, you know, they [00:24:00] have that desire kind

of 

Wingnut: Yep,

Kush: crushed 

Wingnut: there's a bunch of the young kids in the, in the kind of super groovy longboard world. And they all smoke and it just blows me away. And it's, it's a combination of one, of just how bad it is for you. Number two, how expensive they are now. They've taxed the shit out of these things. Which, Good use of tax money.

Um, but I always tell the kids, it's like, would you like two brand new surfboards every year? They're like, yeah. I'm like, well, stop smoking. How much did these things cost you? You can get two custom boards from anybody in the world for what you're wasting on cigarettes. But no, no, no, go ahead. You look really cool.

Kush: Yeah, yeah Vigna talk to us about Movies have a way of changing people's lives Talk to us about your life Pre, Endless Summer 2, and After.

Wingnut: Right before the movie, you know, I, I was a good competitive surfer and a little bit of the longboard competition there was. [00:25:00] I was, um, attending UC Santa Cruz. So I graduated in June, married my girlfriend in October, and Bruce Brown called me in January. So in a real quick pathway, you know, this happened.

My plan was going to be to try to work in the surf industry. You know, I can sell almost anything. So I was like, I want to be a rep for one of the brands. Surf industry. So my plan was to go to the trade show. They had Action Sports Retailer down in San Diego and that's what I was going to do. Well, so Bruce derailed it and he said, look, this is going to create some opportunities for you.

Doors are going to open. It's up to you what you're going to do with the opportunities. So, and again, I had a degree in economics and marketing, so I was ready to go and it was just interesting as the film ended, Because I had probably the highest visibility of any longboarder at the time, it created higher [00:26:00] sponsorship opportunities.

So O'Neill was taking real good care of me, Rainbow Fins, Robert August Surfboards, I had Sanuk Shoes. You know, so I was making a decent income as a pro surfer. Not on the scale that the pro shortboard guys were making, but I was definitely probably the highest paid longboarder in the world at that time.

None. Maybe Joel, Joel Tudor could have been making as much or more because he had a great contract with Oxbow, but you know, finally making enough that I could carry my share of the mortgage and the rent and healthcare and everything. And my wife was doing her part too, so it created this opportunity.

And then there was a transition period with O'Neill, my wetsuit sponsor, and I was working for O'Neill Europe, the European licensee. And we were trying to create A different marketing strategy for them because surf competitions, which all the brands sponsor to me, I see them as extremely exclusionary.

What happens is, you know, you've got 50 athletes there, [00:27:00] but as the competition goes on. and athletes are eliminated, you know, as you lose, you're bummed out. So you just leave. So by the end of the weekend, there's one really happy guy, the person that won and everybody else is gone and they're, they're unhappy.

So it doesn't give you that interaction with. You know, the general public as much for the brand. So we created what was called the O'Neill Surf Academy. And so we were taking the basic surf school model that Richard Schmidt here in Santa Cruz had really pioneered, and we took that as a mobile school throughout Europe.

And so O'Neill Europe, Tasked each individual country because of that distributor shifts throughout each country in Europe to find a beach, find a hotel, and get us 50 kids a day. And so we took over, I think we had, 150 wetsuits, 50 surfboards. We had an 18 wheeler outfitted to rack all [00:28:00] this stuff. We had mountain bikes in it, a big military tent, and, and, you know, a 1980s Airstream motorhome.

And we toured Europe. We would do seven countries in seven weeks and hold these, you know, surf camps through Europe. And it was the, before there was a Roxy camp, before there were Billabong camps, before there was any of that. I mean, a lot of the towns would have, like, one surf instructor or another. But we were just showing, you know, trying to encourage a young generation that surfing could be something fun to do and tie it to our brand, not their brand.

And we work closely with the small surf schools in each town because we said, Hey, look, we're doing just, just a little one day lesson. So if the kids really want to do it and we would make this speech to the kids and their parents, it's like, you need to come back to the local surf school. Put them in for a week, get them really dialed in, but it's a healthier sport, I think, choice wise, than a lot of other sports that are out there.[00:29:00] 

It's not really a contact sport. It's the lifestyle as much as it is anything else. And as I tell a lot of people, it's like, if your kid is into surfing, he's gonna be, he or she will be stoked to get up early. They won't do anything too stupid late at night because they're going to miss the good waves in the morning.

So, there is really no other sport where everybody is excited to get up in the dark and put on a wet wetsuit and head out there. So, it, it kind of really can be a positive mind shift for, for kids and carries on through your whole life. I mean, I'm up 60 years old.

Kush: I can see that you are a born marketer uh, yeah, that sales pitch, which is, do you want your kids to develop early morning habit? Come to my surf school [00:30:00] because, because, you know, best case, they will become world champions. Worst case, they will learn to wake up early.

Wingnut: Learn to wake up early. They'll be safe in the ocean afterwards. They'll have a respect for the beach. I mean, everyone that you teach, teach how to surf. And if they stick with it, they look at the ocean and the environment very differently now. You know, what's affecting it. And so I think the, the lives that we've changed by introducing more and more people to surfing, I think it's for the better.

Yes, yes, it's more crowded. I deal with it as much as anyone else. I can't complain about crowds. I'm part of the problem. But I think that the more people that are conscious about it, the more they'll be conscious about trying to protect it. And I, I think, I mean, I'm sure you've seen it too, but, Putting people in the water, putting people in the ocean has a profoundly calming effect on 99 percent of them.

They're a better person when they got out of the water than when they got in, whether or not [00:31:00] they got good waves or not. It's just that act of immersing yourself in such a giant body of water, whether it's the negative ions, whether it's you saw a dolphin go by, you know, it was a foggy day and now it's sunny.

Everybody feels better after they went.

Kush: It is immensely healing. I can attest, uh, all of those things. And you also make this excellent point that if people are to help protect the environment that we are surrounded by, they have to first, perhaps, like, Learn to enjoy that environment. So whether it's our oceans, or our mountains, or our trails, or our land, if they are not going out there and recreating, no matter how crowded the national parks get, matter how busy the lineup gets, it's a lot easier to manage crowds in Yosemite, [00:32:00] or at Pleasure Point, than it is to manage crowds Yeah, grow a brand new planet.

Wingnut: Yeah. Gotta get them to appreciate it and want to protect it. That's for sure.

Kush: One other thing was you finished that movie and you found your pathway as a surfer and particularly a longboarder surf instruction. And you were also maybe competing as a What were Some of the pathways available to a really good surfer back then. And do you think that this allowed you to create a career, a career for yourself in an industry that even today, you know, is not extremely wealthy?

Wingnut: I think it's more difficult today than it was back in my era, actually. I mean, there were print magazines back then, [00:33:00] which there aren't now. Now you have to be the best self promoter in the world. You know, for me, you know, I think this was the traditional way. You'd go through the local surf competitions and if you could finally rise to the top and start winning some, you have your opportunity to get a little bit of a sponsorship.

The surf shop likes you. The surf shop tells the rep for the wetsuit company. He starts giving you stuff out of the little rep budget. You start winning more and more. The guy from the other wetsuit company tries to take you away and then you can finally start asking for money and you just have to be aware to kind of work these paths.

But Again, because I was a longboarder, I wasn't expecting there to be any real true financial reward in what I was doing. I was just thinking, if I get a free surfboard and a free wetsuit, I'm way ahead. Right? So, you know, I, I worked since I was 14 years old, whether it was at McDonald's, at a donut shop, gas station, working at Ruby's for years and years, you know, waiting tables.

You know, it was, I always worked, you know, and [00:34:00] my parents have always made me work. It's like, you know, you gotta wash the car, you gotta do the chores, you gotta do all these things. And I think that was the important thing. When I was looking on the shortboard side of the spectrum, you know, Those kids could get sponsored at 12 to 14 years old.

They were making money from sponsors, so they never had a real job. They have no relationship between a 40 hour work week and a paycheck. Never even had a paper route. You know, and, you know, when you're 12, you're not expected to have one, really. But when most of us were getting those first jobs to buy that board, to buy that wetsuit, you know, at 12 to 14, they're getting their first little taste of sponsorship.

So what happens when it doesn't work? When, you know, they've kind of, you know, they've been on the, the challenger series or the qualifying series, but they never make the championship tour. So they never really made any money. And they kind of went to high school, but there was a lot of homeschooling that was starting.

So what are you going to [00:35:00] do? You know, people would ask me, what's your best advice for, you know, an up and coming young kid that wants to be a pro. And I said, So do you need to learn a second language? So that you can say, would you like to supersize your order? In a second language, because you're only going to be qualified to work at McDonald's after this.

They have no experience working. I mean, what are they going to do? You know, it was so challenging. I mean, in my era, the surf brands were growing. Territory was growing, so they needed more and more sales people, more sales reps. So, even though one guy originally had all of Santa Barbara. By, you know, by the time we're into the mid, mid to late 90s, they're dividing Santa Barbara up into four different pieces for four different reps.

So, You know, there was, there was a need for reps, you know, that growth for a while there, but by the time we got into, you know, 2010 and so, 2008, especially when the economy crashed, that, that was over. They were not giving away territory anymore. [00:36:00] Everybody was being really protective. So, all right, now there's no job for a pro as he retires to work for the company that sponsored him.

There's just nowhere to put him. So, what are they supposed to do? You know, I mean, You know, guys that started their own little businesses, which is great. They had, you know, restaurant guys and this and that, but you know how hard it is to make money in a restaurant? It's almost impossible. So it was like, it was interesting watching, if you go back and like, where are they now?

You know, you look at the top 20 surfers on the Pro Tour for the last 40 years. It's interesting to see who's around, what are they doing as a career, and you know, what would they have done different? Those are the interviews.

Kush: Yeah. Yeah, certainly. A quick segue into helping people understand the difference between shortboarding and longboarding because you were following, let's say this more [00:37:00] niche end of popular surfing.

Wingnut: It's interesting because you say it's more niche, but it's not. more people ride boards over nine feet than they ride small boards. But the, the magazine and popularity and the marketability has always been driven towards shortboarding and so a shortboard is basically mo a surfboard about the same size, height as as the surfer.

I'm five eight. I'd be riding a five, six to a five 10 depending on the conditions, but I prefer to ride a board that's well over three feet over my head. You know, a nine foot to 11 foot board is where my quiver pretty much sits. And so it's, it's taken the best of the longboard era, which was the pioneering days of surfing from the 50s and 60s, taking the style and aesthetic that they, that they had developed, created, perfected on really archaic equipment that when we look at it today, and now I've got modern technology, my boards weigh half of what they weighed, my fins are better, my [00:38:00] wetsuits are better, but I still try to, you know, in my mind, walk a mile in their shoe.

I don't think anybody ever was a better nose rider than David Nueva. I think Nat Young had some of the best turning and pocket driving and tube riding there ever was. So, I'm still trying to get to that skill level on those specific things, and that's what's kept it so engaging with me. And the, the rip and tear, shred, bashing the lip that shortboarding is known for, longboarding is the opposite side where it's more of a dance and a ballet and a performance with the wave.

Not a battle against the wave. Shortboards are trying to dominate it. I'm trying to make love to it. Surfing

Kush: anywhere is good. 

Wingnut: and sex. You don't have to be good at it to like it.

Kush: ~when you started surfing, ~you're absolutely right. You know, popular culture would have you believe that. All surfers are on shortboards, where, where the opposite is, is true [00:39:00] for all kinds of reasons. There are more people longboards as there should be. So when I started surfing, I was just as clueless as the next person, and I got a big board and I tried to progress down to a shortboard too quickly. I'm curious with your own surf journey, would you? Did you first start with a different kind of and eventually find that is your calling? Or did you have a different path?

Wingnut: For me, I don't think I was consciously thinking I'd never ride a shortboard. But I was so enamored with the style and aesthetic of longboarding. And also that, that time in pop culture. From the longboard era of, you know, the mid fifties through through the late sixties. I just that was a kind of a really neat time in american history, especially in coastal history So I was like that was just an era that really appealed to me and the fact that [00:40:00] I could go down to Blackie's where I learned how to surf in Newport, and, you know, I didn't know it at the time, but, you know, the half a dozen guys that were down there on a regular basis who were really good, and I was just like, oh, I just need to get as good as this old guy.

Well, I didn't realize that old guy was one of the best guys on the Bing's surf team, you know, for, for a decade. So, I'm never going to be as good as him. But, it gave me an appreciation of the sport. and kind of the history of the people that were involved in it. And I really didn't want to have anything to do with, you know, the rip and tear guys up at 54th street in Newport.

I mean, these are the guys Danny Kwok and the boys who started Quicksilver and Volcom and all this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I don't care. I don't want to do anything with that. Just never appealed to me.

Kush: Got it. Got it. No, it sounds like, yeah, it sounds like it was something that was immediately attractive to you uh, have taken it as your life's work and taken it to [00:41:00] its maybe Zenith in some ways. Any advice though for other people who are starting out surfing and how they should think about what they want to get out of the sport and why they should stick with let's say certain kinds of equipment or move on to something else?

Wingnut: You know, I think it's a really good question. Like what you want to get out of your surfing, out of your experience with it. You know, what The hardest part about surfing is figuring out which wave you can catch and then having the right equipment to catch it. You know, you go ahead. You can try to learn this sport on a six foot shortboard.

But I hope you're 10 years old. If you're 50 years old, you'll be the most frustrated human being on the planet. You know, it's it's a it's a game of displacement. You know, you need to move through the water fast enough on your [00:42:00] surfboard to catch that wave. So, I think everybody should start on a, um, roughly a 9 foot board.

8 or 9 foot foamies are great because they've got, you know, good flotation. Makes it easier to catch a wave. And since you're going to fall on almost every single one of them, a foamy is nice and soft. You know, it won't hurt that bad. But once you've progressed past that, you have to decide You know, do I want to be one of the guys that are really carving off the bottom, snapping a turn off the top, you know, full roundhouse cutbacks?

Well then, you're going to need to progress yourself down, probably to about a 7 foot board, you know, if you started later in life. But if you're, if you're comfortable just enjoying the experience of, you know, how far I can ride this wave. It started at shoulder high, I want to ride it until it's ankle high.

I think you might just be really happy on a longboard for the rest of your life. But I also think that people should start trying to figure out what kind of boards they like. Figure out somebody in the [00:43:00] water who surfs, they like the way they surf. Maybe ask them, who made your board? Where did you get your board?

You know, because that's the other part of this culture is wanting to basically fit in. You know, if you're surfing in Santa Cruz, you know, get a surfboard from Doug Hout. He's the most venerated shaper in town still making surfboards. You walk up to the beach with a Hout under your arm, you're immediately a peg up in, you know, alright, how do I judge everybody?

Because we judge you the minute you're paddling out. The wetsuit you're wearing, the hat you're wearing, the helmet, the booties, how you paddle. You know, what kind of leash you're using, you know, you're, we're judging you on all these things. So to go into the plus category, the brand of surfboard is going to, is going to do it.

It's a good way to start. Let's put it that way.

Kush: Funny, but I had a Doug Haught used surfboard in my surf years, though I [00:44:00] think, yeah, it was used and I don't know what happened to it. I think I broke it at some point, I think I might have deceived some people who might have seen my board and thought that I was a much better surfer

than I 

Wingnut: That's

dress for success.

Kush: Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. it's about, yeah, it's all about setting that intention. This is great. you have been, at the forefront of longboarding and surfing for a long time, but you've also been a pioneer with surf instruction. I think that surf instruction is a very, uh, uh, unhuman industry. especially for adults. So I do want to ask you a few things around that. Let's begin with, do you have spent so much time teaching and likely worked with surfers of all levels? For those of us who didn't start as kids, what do you think is the best [00:45:00] mindset to have as you work through the challenges of this? Dynamic environment, which changes all the time, yes, unless perhaps if you grew up, you know, in Lombok, or Hawaii, or what have you, is the mindset that we need to take with us?

Wingnut: I think I'm steepest learning curve of any sport in the world. You know, you have to be physically strong enough to paddle out. you know, out to where the waves are. Turn around to try to paddle and catch a wave. And then when you succeed or fail, you succeed, you at least get a long ride. You fail, you fell in the water, got to get back on your board, but then you have to paddle back out again and kind of wait your turn.

It'd be like if you're trying to learn how to ski, but there was no chairlift. And every time you fell, you had to walk back to the top. [00:46:00] You know, think how exhausting you would be. And that's what we face with surfing. At least on a mountain, you can go 20 feet and fall, go another 20 feet and fall. You can, it'll take you a half hour to get to the bottom of the hill.

But at least it's always your turn to try.

Kush: And, and, sorry, and, you are on your feet.

Wingnut: And you're on your feet.

Kush: that, so you already have like a tiny taste of what it means to be on your feet, where in surfing it may take a long time before you get up on your feet.

Wingnut: And, and most of us are in good enough shape with our legs that the, you know, the skiing analogy works because, you know, you might be tired at the end of the day, but you could ski all day. You bought that lift pass, you're going to be out there all day. Good luck as a beginner, you know, lasting an hour and a half, two hours in the water.

It's not going to happen. And so I think the biggest success I've seen with clients has been those that have a background swimming and are good swimmers. I have one particular client who has progressed so rapidly, and it's all because of his history as a [00:47:00] swimmer. He was, he's, he can last three hours in the water, no problem.

So he's progressed all the way to riding a seven foot board in the matter of two years and he can ride it really well, but it's also because he can catch those waves. He can last and do battle out there with the current and the position and the crowds. So it's the physicality. So you just need to be, Don't get down on yourself when you get tired because you're going to get tired.

And that's like my number one thing with clients is watching them when they're starting to get tired and encouraging the session to end. It's because diminishing returns, your failure rate goes up, and you're going to end up getting out of the water disappointed and beating yourself up as opposed to leaving on a high note.

Sure, you might be able to paddle out for one more, But, the wind's coming up, six other guys just paddled out, you know, by the time you actually get that other wave, it's not going to be near as good as that one, you should just go in. 

Kush: having that background in swimming [00:48:00] certainly helps, and then being able to eventually learn how to read the ocean, I think that goes a long way. Perhaps sheer stubbornness also helps, you know, being

dogged. 

Wingnut: Totally, totally, if you can, if you can, fight through it, and I think learn from your mistakes is a really good one, you know, the problem with leashes on surfboards is, You fall down, you grab your board, and you're immediately going out thinking about your next wave. You're not processing why you fell. You know, back in the day before leashes, you lost your board.

You gotta swim all the way in and get it. And while you're swimming in, you're like, what the hell went wrong? I don't, this water is cold. I don't want to do this again. And it makes you think it through. I mean, I always, when I have a client come back out after they fell, I'm like, what went wrong? Rewind the movie.

Go backwards to when you fell, and it's [00:49:00] like, oh, I tried to turn, but I forgot to, you know, use my upper body, or, oh, I didn't see the kettle, I mean, Half a dozen different things are the easy ones, but think about it. Take a minute to think about it after each wipeout. It's not your turn anyway. You know, get out of the way.

First thing, get out of the way, but then sit up for a minute and like, what went wrong? There it was. Okay, yeah. I didn't put my foot back enough from my turn, or my feet were too close together. Take a minute to figure it out, and then get back in line.

Kush: me ask you this, when it comes to, let's say, finding flow, right, the reason I think I stick with certain things is because finding that sense of mastery, finding that sense of being present, you know, in surfing that can be kind of fleeting, especially again as a beginner, because one may not actually get on your [00:50:00] feet or even just ride a board in any position. What's uh, one piece of advice that you keep giving clients over and over again and how do they tap into that feeling of flow so they come back for the next session?

Wingnut: I think it's a good, it's a great question. And I think what I've learned most is to try to increase the narrow field of vision. that people get into. They're starting to look into such a tight little funnel. They're so concerned about their feet or the nose of their board, but they really need to be opening that up and be looking so much further and appreciating everything that's happening.

Because then instead of reacting to the little things in front of you, you're reacting to the big long thing in front of you, which is the energy of the wave. And by doing that, by [00:51:00] seeing that bigger expanse, You're less, you're less nervous, you're less frenetic, you're smoother, and all of a sudden you become one with that whole wall of water that's moving through the ocean instead of all the quick little bits of water that are moving right under the nose of your board.

Because you can't change anything that's happening five feet in front of you. You, by the time you've recognized it, you've ran over it. So, you better have a much wider field so you don't run into Tom, you avoid that rock, you see the stand up paddler, but more importantly, you see the whole picture. And it gives you that opportunity, and it's the same with like skiing and riding a bike downhill.

You don't want to focus on any one little thing, you're going to run into that thing. So, you want to kind of focus on the whole picture. Expanse of the wave and the energy and it allows you to kind of flow with it. And life's easier with a bigger point of view.[00:52:00] 

Kush: Sure. These days, becoming or learning how to surf as an adult is, is difficult. You know, I, like I said, I and many others started as adults and we fumbled. time until we kind of figured out, like, this is the right way to learn. How should one go about trying to learn an adult? And just to narrow down the field, let's say you are, you live in an urban, urban environment.

You have some access to waves, but not good waves all the time. and then you have a busy job, career, whatnot, but you have this insatiable desire to want to, to want to learn to surf. You're in decent physical shape. What should be some of your first steps to

getting 

Wingnut: Professional. Professional surf instruction these days is so readily available in virtually every beach community. It's something you should take advantage of. You know, and that's when you go on the message [00:53:00] boards, go on Yelp or whatever, and hear what people are saying about the different surf schools and the different programs.

You know, immerse yourself, whether it's private lessons, group lessons, but you need some time with somebody explaining this to you. The water is too busy to just go out there and try it by yourself. You will be so frustrated and so exhausted because you won't get any reward out of it. You know, at least when you're an instructor, you'll get to your feet, you know, the first day.

At some point, they'll make sure that everybody at least got on their feet for a little while. So, and that gives you that reward, that gives you that sense of, that's why I want to do it again. So, I, you know, I think that's the first logical step is finding a good surf school to work with. And sure, there might be a bunch of kids out there that are better than you, but kids are good at everything.

That's why we don't like them.

Kush: What should people look for selecting a surf school or maybe just a surf coach? 

Wingnut: Again, I [00:54:00] think you have to go and look at reviews, because, you know, there's Half a dozen surf instruct, instruction groups in Santa Cruz, and there are two of them that are absolutely horrible and four that are great. So, that's why you have to check. And, you know, you go into a reputable surf shop, you go, you know, you go online, they'll tell you who the good guys are.

Kush: Well, these days, when one doesn't even decide to choose a place to get a sandwich without looking at reviews. There is no excuse for not getting some, some prior information, doing some research into, into the school. I understand you are still coaching people. Are you still taking students? And if so, if somebody wanted to avail of your coaching services being that, how does one do [00:55:00] that?

Wingnut: I've been really fortunate in how my career has evolved and how I, you know, how I work. I don't have a website. You can, you can find me on Instagram at the wingnut. And again, there, for beginners, I think there are a lot of really good choices, um, with beginner surf instructors. And I, I try to work with people that are already kind of on a pathway.

Um, that, that have figured out they definitely want to do this. They've already caught their own waves, but they definitely need help from that point on. So, you know, and I take, you know, the clients that I've had for decades, they bring me beginners all the time. Hey, this is my cousin and his kids. And like, we can work with this.

We can, we can put them into the program. And I have all sorts of people that I can bring in to help work with me. But, uh, yeah, I like to joke about it as I might be the most, Overpriced surf guide in the world, [00:56:00] and that helps, helps keep, keep my client base 

special. 

Kush: Yeah,

manageable, 

Wingnut: I try not to work too much here in Santa Cruz, because as I said, there are really good surf programs here.

So it's when I have somebody visiting in town, one of my clients from, who lives on the East Coast or Australia. Sure, I'll take them surfing here and I'll give them the tour. And I've done the entire coast of California with clients before. But again, I, I, I'm a really light touch. I don't show up with ten people and we're a surf school.

No, there are great surf schools in each town that do that. That's not me.

Kush: for sure. Let's move on to this, uh, part of the podcast I like calling the ageless, uh, part of the podcast. Surf culture has, you know, evolved a lot in the last few decades. We touched on that a little bit. Do you think, uh, there's anything from that classic era of surfing that you were a [00:57:00] part of. That's missing in popular culture today?

Wingnut: I don't think so. I mean, I, I still see everything that drew me to it. I see. The things that I really liked about it, about my part of the world, and the things I disliked about that side of surfing, it's still there too. It's just there's more humans involved in it now. So, I mean,

that's the only thing I miss.

You know, a combination of more people, which was going to happen, and then how good Surfline is, with forecasting. It's taken those magic mornings away. What, what a surfer today will never have is waking up, walking down to the beach and going, holy shit, running back to your house or your car. There's nobody in the water.

It's two feet overhead and, and surfing virtually by yourself for two or three hours till the word spreads organically. [00:58:00] Now. You know, Surfline says, you know, it's going to be six to eight feet on Friday and people are at the water's edge in the dark suiting up. They can't even see it, but they know it's going to be there.

And I love when Surfline's late. I love when they all go paddling out. 

There's not a wave anywhere because they might, you know, their timing can be a little off, but they know exactly what day the swell is going to hit now. So I think what the current generation doesn't get are those magic, oh my God, where'd the swell come from experiences.

Kush: you think the wave storm has helped or ruined surf culture?

Wingnut: I think it did it both. Little bit of both. You know, I, I think before the wave storm, everybody learned on an old beat up piece of shit surfboard, seven to nine feet long. And they were heavy, and they'd been repaired poorly, and it, it's all you could find used at the shop, so it made it very difficult. The, there were, you know, the, the [00:59:00] Mike Doyle soft foam board was like, Way before the wave storm, but they were too expensive.

So the fact that they were able to make a cost effective good beginner board definitely helped open up, you know, the surf world, you know, a 99 board that you could return if you broke, you know, is a great thing, but the environmental impact of that particular technology, the wave storm literally disintegrates.

After about a year, and there's sheets of plastic come off of it, and then, you know, you can break them and take them back to Costco and they go in the landfill. So I think that's the part that hurts about them. That's where they've ruined it. I mean, like I said, I gave up my rights to complaining about crowds, but I like the fact that crowds are safe.

I mean, I got hit in the leg today by a wavestorm. The girl apologized and I said, You were doing exactly the right thing. You were paddling as fast as you could, in one [01:00:00] direction, and you just weren't able to hang on to your board when you went through the white water. I anticipated it, I saw it coming, it just got me in the thigh, but it's a wavestorm, it's not going to hurt me.

You know, so, had it been, and it literally happened earlier, the guy with the stand up paddle board doing the same thing, and I knew he was going to go over the falls, So instead of trying to make the wave, because I made the wave when the girl let go of her board, because I knew it was just going to bounce off me.

But the big stand up paddle board was going to kill me if it hit me, so I had to straighten off and lose the wave. So, yes, WaveStorms are great because they're safe, great entry level product, and, you know, I like seeing people, once they commit to the sport, going to a real shaper after that. Hopefully somebody from the community that they like to surf in.

Bye, local. Respect the shapers that, you know, have been honing their craft for years, grew up in that community. And if that's where you want to be surfing, you should be on a locally made board, if possible.

Kush: [01:01:00] Yeah. Absolutely. Vignesh, you have been surfing all over the world places quite far away from, let's say, Western world and you have interacted with all kinds of cultures, some of those we saw in the movie also. I'm wondering if there are any lessons you took from those interactions, those experiences, that have informed you. on how to live your life shape the world that surrounds you.

Wingnut: I think from my travels, you know, I've learned to appreciate, you know, first off, people feet wet. You know, when, when they're a surfer. Fishermen, you know, people that live around the ocean. They're pretty genuine when you see them doing what they do. You learn about a person's real personality when he's in the water, he or she is in [01:02:00] the water.

You know, I like to joke, it's like instant asshole, just add water. The guy's a jerk on land, he's a jerk in the water too. The water didn't make him a jerk, he was just a jerk. You know, and the equipment doesn't make you a jerk, you were just a jerk first. But I think travel teaches you that you, the whole localism thing, a local that, that is super protective is just an asshole that cannot get his shit together to travel.

Because you can't travel with that attitude. You travel with that mindset, everyone is going to hate you immediately, and they're going to treat you like the enemy, not like a friend. If you travel with the Bruce Brown sensibilities of, look how amazing this place is, how lucky are they to live here? you know, I, and, and like, they will welcome you into their homes.

You know, I love going into the small communities, figure out how everybody's making it work, you know, here, there, and how much they appreciate every little thing. And how can I contribute to [01:03:00] their little world? Cause by letting me surf their waves, they've made my life better. So, you know, I, I've spent a lot of time in China over the last 10, 15 years surfing.

And. Just like it, just like in our country. We might not agree with the politicians who run our countries, but you're a tourist and you want to have a piece of fish and you're going to surf out there and I'll watch your stuff. And you know, the same thing that happened in Mexico, you know, 75 years ago, Costa Rica, 50 years ago, China, right now, the small mom and pop villages on the beach that make food, they treat you the same.

You know, they're not judging me because I'm an American judging me because I've got a smile on my face and I might want to. Buy some ceviche from them.

Kush: That's such a, uh, such a cool insight. You know, that, uh, the locals who are surly and they create localism are the people who cannot travel. That is [01:04:00] Because you're right, like it could be that, uh, you know, if you live, if you're a crab living in a small bucket and you don't see how beautiful the world is outside, you try to keep others from enjoying that little pot around you as well. One other thing that I think you pointed to, which is, uh, is also so deep, which is, know, when one goes to. A new place, as, let's say, as somebody more than just a tourist, know, somebody who's, in my case, maybe a rock climber, or, or a surfer, or, um, mountain biker, what have you, I think you get a chance to immerse yourself in that environment in a much, maybe, deeper way.

So maybe everybody who next goes to like a little corner in China, you know, should go at least take a surf lesson if, and learn about the ways of, uh, the land over there.[01:05:00] 

Wingnut: Yeah, I recently viewed a bunch of the surf schools in Hainan, and I wouldn't recommend that place for a surf lesson.

Kush: Okay. 

Wingnut: Pretty much anybody that is willing to stand out and waste deep water will be a surf instructor in Hainan, and most of them can't surf, but they know how to turn around a wave storm and push it in, so.

Yeah, once again, you have to check. Get a review.

Kush: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think surf instruction and being pushed out of the way Into waves are not quite the same thing. And

I, 

Wingnut: Absolutely. 

Kush: Maybe getting pushed into ways for just five, just feeling that thrill of being by a wave and maybe taking that when you actually go and seek

is not a bad thing. 

Wingnut: Right. And that, that's a safe gateway right there. Okay. Now you think you'll like it. Here's a real school. Go over there. I mean, that's what, that's what parents have done for years. They've turned around and pushed their kids in, you know, on [01:06:00] boogie boards and air mats and then surf boards. And that's how we all made these horrible choices in our lives to become surfers.

Kush: Just like diet and body work and, Resilience To start off with, you have surfed for a long time, Wingnut, and surfed at a high level. Anytime one does one activity a long time, even something as, you know, as fun as surfing, one can hit mental blocks, you know. where maybe you're not progressing anymore or something else is not quite working. Have, have you had those periods and maybe any strategies that you've found to help you kind of shake that and then go back for your next surf session with a big smile? 

Wingnut: I mean, there was a period when we were making Endless Summer 2, And I really felt I was under some heavy scrutiny. You know, why me? You know, it's like, it's like my version of survivor's guilt, right? [01:07:00] Out of the 20 of us that it could have been, why did I get picked? And so then I started getting real self conscious about my surfing when I was home.

Kush: Ah, 

Wingnut: it was like starting to take the fun out of it. Like now it's my job and I'm not, I just wasn't having fun. And it took a while to shake that off. And it's like, I never felt that way when we were kids. You know, when I'd leave two weeks later and go to Australia for a month, I felt great, but it was like this weirdness at home and I had to kind of shake that off.

I'm like, I'm here for a reason. I'm still really good at this, you know. So that was really the only time where I had this kind of falling out of love with surfing at my home spot just because, and again, it was self imposed. I was just putting this whole feeling on myself. So, and again, it's the, remember why you like doing it.

Like. I don't surf Dawn Patrol anymore. I respect the people with jobs. That's their only window to surf before work. And so it better be the only time that the tide is perfect and the swell is maxing to have me [01:08:00] paddling out at first light. Otherwise I'm the guy that paddles out at 8. 30 and reminds everybody they've got to go to work.

Kush: yes. And I was 

Wingnut: You're muted, I cannot, uh, I

Kush: morning. 

Wingnut: would have postponed baking it if it was a good surf morning.

Kush: Fair enough. Um, how about your diet? you travel a lot, right? And obviously you're somebody who cares about what you eat. What has worked for you in being able to, let's say, fuel yourself at home and when you are in remote places to be able to just stay, uh, strong.

Wingnut: You know, it's interesting because I pretty much eat everything as often as I can. You know, I, uh, I love my red meat, my lamb, my pork, [01:09:00] everything in moderation. I think it's one of the things you learn traveling that, uh, Portion size in America is terrifying. A restaurant meal could feed me at home for like four days.

So I think that's probably the thing I've noticed the most is managing how much I eat over the course of a day. And, um, Trying to have, you know, everything that your mom told you when you were a kid. Eat your leafy greens, you know. Try to have as many vegetables as you can. And I also, especially when I travel, I try to eat as local as I can.

You know, I want to eat what you eat. I want to, why is that your favorite thing? And I will have that pickled chicken's foot first thing when I walk in, you know. Sit down at a table and try it. There's a reason why these are cultural norms, and I want to be able to experience as much of that as I can. I might not order it a second time, but I definitely want to order what the locals want me to eat every time I go for the first time.

Kush: For sure. as we get older, you know, our bodies change, our [01:10:00] needs change. Do you, for example, do you do any blood work? Do

you 

take care of, uh, any, 

any any deficiencies, any supplements?

Wingnut: Only thing that I do, I have green tea every morning before I have my coffee. That was something Robert August started me on years and years ago, and it was because Two things. One, all the antioxidants in green tea are really, really good for you. And it's a lot easier on your stomach in the morning when it's an empty stomach instead of pouring a cup of black coffee down the hole.

And I drink my coffee black. No sugar, no cream, none of that. So, I definitely know when I have coffee without having the green tea first. My system's like, wow.

Um, uh, and then it's leafy greens. I, I just started taking Kind of super mushroom gummies to for brain health So I'm in I'm two months into that [01:11:00] Seeing if that affects I mean 60 years old, right?

So got to start looking at certain things that we might want to add to the program but vitamin D I think is very important You know, it's a very it's a catalyst vitamin. So even though sunscreen is extremely important We're not going to argue that but you still need to get some skin exposure through the day You Let some sun through so that it can keep your body healthy.

That's why, you know, the farther north you go people get, they have the depression issues and higher cancer issues and like for me particularly as I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis 27 years ago and MS is a drug, is a disease that virtually never occurs between the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn because there's just no Let's say excess vitamin D available in those regions, but the farther away from the equator you get the higher and higher the frequency and instances of MS.

So to me it seemed like there was a natural [01:12:00] vitamin D issue. And when I look back on the year that I was diagnosed, it was the year that I had the most stress in my life. We were doing promotions for the movie. My son was just born. I was spending the least amount of time doing that what kept me the healthiest before.

So I was lucky that. My progression was extremely slow. My neurologist was extremely cautious, didn't want to start me on the heavy steroid based drugs because I was so young. I was 33, 32. And, I mean, at this point in my life, if I had been on those drugs, I would have had to have knees and hips and shoulders replaced because the steroid drugs were just so aggressive.

And, I mean, they were necessary if I was having Very, you know, one on top of another, lesions, you know, popping up and this and that, well then it'd be something I would have done. But I was fortunate that I had a very slow progression and we deemed it wasn't necessary, we'd see how it did. And then there was a, a woman who produced a [01:13:00] really nice TED talk, Dr.

Terry Walls, and she had, it's called the Walls Diet because she had MS. And again, it goes into these things. The foods that you really should eat to help your body produce the myelin and the other things in your brain to protect it from MS, heal it and protect it. So, again, I added the greens and the this and this to try to have a, incorporate that into my diet as much as possible.

Kush: Wow. So if I understood correctly, the classic Yeah, so the little I know, MS is very debilitating and there is maybe standard treatment that involves taking steroids and maybe other things. You disavow that treatment.

Wingnut: It's a potentially debilitating disease depending on how aggressive it is. And what it is, it's the white blood cells attacking the neuropathways in your brain. So your white, your, the neuropathway has an insulation around it, like an electrical wiring, and that's called the [01:14:00] myelin sheath. And what happens is the white blood cells attack the myelin sheath.

And as they start to break that down, it affects the, the, the neuropathways ability to send that message from your brain to your hand, to your foot or to wherever. And in the worst cases that the white blood cells will actually.

So you'll go blind in an eye, you won't be able to talk, your right hand won't work, you know, whatever that pathway was. Fortunately, for me, okay, now here's, this was interesting. For me it went after my center of balance and my right leg. So if I was an accountant, balance and right leg wouldn't matter. But what do I do?

The most balance centric in my right leg is my power leg, my back leg. And as I talk to more and more people who were diagnosed with MS over the years, it went for what they used the most. My friend who was a shaper, it went for his right arm. You know, it really, and to me, it's that neuropathway [01:15:00] that has the most heat in it.

for lack of a better explanation, right. It's the one that I use the most. So that's the one that got attacked by the white blood cells. You know, so that's, you know, that's my simplistic way of understanding it for me. And so I was, we chose not to go for the aggressive drugs 'cause I didn't present anything other than the balance and the leg.

If I started presenting, you know, my left leg or my my arm, then we would've had to have taken more aggressive steps. So we were able to. Do kind of a sit and wait, and during that period, the Wahl's diet became something that you could understand. It was actually a few years later, and so I started adopting parts of her program into mine.

Kush: Where are you with MS now?

Wingnut: I'm, I'm, fortunately, don't have any symptoms at all. I had a, uh, an MRI so that I could do a, get a baseline on what's going on in my brain, because there's definitely a lot of, uh, Empty unused [01:16:00] space. And so you could be having lesions in other places and they wouldn't show up. But there was not a lesion to be seen.

Barely some scar tissue on the two original ones. So, you know, I've still been real lucky. And who knows when it comes back. Because it has a tendency to come back at some point. But I think I got off lucky. I mean, I was worried was I ever going to be able to surf with my son.

You know, when, how debilitating would it get?

And I fortunately had a very slow, you know, 

Kush: Got it. 

And 

Wingnut: version. 

Kush: of a healthy lifestyle and some

evolved dietary 

Wingnut: like to think so.

Kush: which still included eating, uh, pickled pig's feet on occasion,

have allowed you to 

Wingnut: Yeah, pickled pig's feet, glass of wine, love a martini. Yeah, there's 

everything in moderation.

Uh, wanted to ask a little bit about your physical practice, to stay in shape, to keep your body As [01:17:00] again, uh, as we all get older, we spoke about how you were inspired by Jerry Lopez earlier in your career. And one, uh, one statement that I've heard, which is attributed to Jerry, Lupus is that one should surf today to be able to surf tomorrow. And I'm curious, uh, as to how you live out daily practices for that same end goal. Would

I and I completely agree with Jerry that it's not that you lose the skills, but you lose the quality of the skills. Like, I haven't ridden a bike in a month, but I still know how to ride a bike. I'm not going to enter a bike race. But I think you, you owe it to yourself if you want to be able to participate in whatever sport it is.

To keep yourself in shape. in shape that will [01:18:00] help you do that. Like for me now, I, you know, I, I don't go to a gym and work out. I'm not trying to put on muscle mass. I do basic calisthenics at home because it's something that I can do when I travel. The routine that I have developed for myself is something that I want to be able to do in the future.

in a hotel room, in an airport quiet space, you know what I'm traveling and here I don't change it just so that I have a consistency and I found it's what helps keep me sharp enough that when the waves pick up when I get home I can paddle out for two hours and I won't feel it the next day. Well,

Kush: are some of your secret routines that you practice in like airport, uh, and, uh, hotel rooms?

Wingnut: you know, it goes back to some simple calisthenics of, of pushups, sit ups, crunches, flexibility, and then try, you know, [01:19:00] I will never take an elevator if I, if the stairs are reasonable and I'm not carrying too much gear, you know, I also choose to stay on only the second or third floor of all hotels. That's a combination of one.

I'm impatient, waiting for crowded elevators. to my dad was stuck in a hotel fire years ago and told me never stay above the sixth floor because the ladders don't reach. You should always know, always know where the stairs are in every hotel that you check into. It's four doors down from mine and I, I know I, it's a habit my dad instilled in me and I still do it.

So, you know, I can get out of a hotel faster and especially if you're on the, you know, the ground floor or the first floor, 

I don't, I don't really give a shit about the view out of a hotel room.

Kush: One habit I picked up from my for my dad was my dad is a doctor Semi retired now, but his back in Delhi when we were growing up was on the fourth floor and He would always [01:20:00] insist on taking the stairs up to that and as kids, you know, we were kind of Annoyed by that, but I you know, decades later, I still have a hard time taking the elevator if stairs are available because just that habit I had as a kid, you know,

Wingnut: I, it, it,

Kush: when he sees me 

Wingnut: Right, coming out of the elevator. I mean, it's different if, if, if 18 floors up, I get it. But, you know, you know, if it's five or six floors, that's funny. I was just in, in, in, uh, Puerto Vallarta, in Enclote. And, you know, we took the stairs to the fifth floor every day. You know, my buddy Kevin and I, it's just like, Why not?

What else have we got to do today? We don't get a lot of walking on the beach there. We're in the water, so everything's upper body. So, let's take the stairs whenever we're going back and forth to the condo.

Kush: A hundred percent, you know, one, one, one needs to be able to incorporate movement as a lifestyle habit. And sometimes one cannot make it [01:21:00] to a gym.

Wingnut: Right. 

And, And, I, I, 

I, I joke about my, my, my stretching practice at home is literally on the, you know, Watching TV is fine, but you can do it kind of actively, you know, so my wine glass is actually past my foot and until I could actually get there, I can't have a glass of wine and I got to put it all the way back, you know, so it's, I spend the first, you know, 45 minutes to an hour watching the news sitting on the floor stretching, you know, just take a, take that opportunity to Get back on the ground and do your body some good after what you've done all day.

Whatever it is all day It's like just stretch and then you can finally Relax relax like when I get up the first thing in the morning and I'm reading the paper. I'm stretching and Trying to wake my body up, you know I'm on trips and I watch guys, you know They just slept for eight hours The first thing they do is sit down on the sofa with a cup of [01:22:00] coffee

Kush: yeah. 

Wingnut: Did you sleep good?

And they're like, yeah, I slept great. And I'm like, why are you resting? Get up, move around. We're, we're going to be surfing in 20 or 30 minutes. You need to let your body know this is about to happen. 

And like, so that's what I, I try to change people's mindsets about, you know, you're trying to start a process for the day.

You're trying to get yourself going. Don't immediately sit down and tell your body. Oh, We don't have to go anywhere. It's not Sunday. Sure, Sunday. Big paper. Have a second cup of coffee. Enjoy it. But Monday through Friday, get your ass moving.

Kush: Plus, it gets harder as one gets older, right? Because, you know, when you're a young little dyke, you can just get out of bed on your long car ride and just start paddling for a wave furiously.

Wingnut: Yeah. 

Kush: the rest of us, you know, we have 

to be able to warm up our body carefully or Or we get injured if you don't do that.

Wingnut: It's the same thing when [01:23:00] I'm out surfing. It's like, on colder days, I'll be inside just catching scraps. I just need to keep moving otherwise it's just all gonna tighten up and by the time that wave comes, I mean we've all done it, we've waited for what, oh that, oh that one's not good enough, I wanna go in, but I need a better wave, I wanna, I'm just gonna wait, by the time you decide to turn around and go, you're like, oh, oh, oh, this is not gonna be good, and you're barely standing there trying to make it to the beach, you know, you gotta keep, keep the body moving so that you can perform at whatever level you have.

Kush: Wingnut, earlier in the chat you talked about, uh, how you still had some, perhaps some performance goals you were aspiring to. I am curious, do you think your best days are behind you are still ahead of you?

Wingnut: Probably behind me, to be honest about it. I mean it, where, you know, where I can push myself on really epic days. And I [01:24:00] guess we're talking about when the surf is 8 to 10 feet or bigger. I think, I think, I ride those waves well now, but I'm not pushing as hard as I did then. I think my, you know, my, my turning, my nose riding, my way of selection is probably as good as it's ever been, if not better.

I think age and experience will give you that. You know, I can definitely see. A set coming, probably have a pretty good idea what the best wave of the set is and where to take off on that set, and that's just because of experience. I can tell who's going to try to drop in on me, I can tell the guy that's not going to catch the wave because he's sitting there too far.

So that experience really helps, so I'm probably at the peak of my game with ocean knowledge and wave, anything that has to do with waves. But at 60 years old, am I as good as I was when I was 35? Probably not.

Kush: Good

Wingnut: But, 

Kush: Uh, 

Wingnut: but I haven't lost, I haven't lost a contest in 10 years.

Kush: Amazing. [01:25:00] ha 

Wingnut: I haven't entered a contest in 10 years.

Kush: Good answer. A surf centric answer. But let me reframe that question to include you as a person and your life this planet. When you take all of that into account, would you change your answer?

Wingnut: Then I would, because I'm definitely a better person now than I was when I was 35 or 40. And I think a lot of that has to be attributed to my spouse, who's, I'm lucky as I've been to have been married to this woman for 33 All to always keep me grounded, keep everything in perspective, and to have had my back for all these years so that I can leave, do what I have to do, you know, to, to bring home the bacon sometimes and to still ha not have to worry about 'cause in the truest sense of the words.

She's, she's been the most marvelous partner. You know, she has a fine art background, not a business background, but [01:26:00] she's the one that has invested our money, paid our bills, made sure everything worked smoothly behind the scenes. I mean, now it's all easy. You can do it online. But back then, you know, balancing the checks, making sure Cameron got to school, all this stuff.

So I had a partner, and she's made me a better person because she's the nicest person in the world. So, I definitely have, uh, Higher social empathy and I'm a better person because of her. So once again, like my higher surf knowledge of the ocean, my higher social knowledge as a human is better because of my age.

Kush: Is she a surfer? 

Wingnut: She's a goofy foot, so, sort of. 

My son's a goofy foot too, so it's just fun to say.

Kush: I know you are a goofy. I saw you I saw you, you know, uh, Thank you. Cloud break, you know, on your

Wingnut: I can switch stance, I can switch stance,

Kush: that too, I saw that too 

Wingnut: but I'm a regular foot, I live at a point break, and going left now, [01:27:00] very confusing for me. I've got pleasure point disease.

Kush: Sure. Yeah, point break, backside, and a wave, you know, super well, is probably, um, Uh, Vindad, if you, so obviously you have created a life which on the outside looks, you know, Fulfilling appealing in so many ways. You have accomplished so many things. But if you were to go back, let's say, two decades to when you were 40, is there a piece of advice you would give yourself on doing something differently?

Wingnut: Yeah, I would have bought more stock.

I, 

know what you're saying.

Kush: yeah. 

Wingnut: Oh, I know what I'd buy now. Actually, you know, I'm going to say no. I mean, I was on a really good path. I spent my 40th birthday on the side of a road watching a tire be changed in South Africa. And because it was my birthday, I didn't have to help change the tire. [01:28:00] And I was eating tuna fish with a Lay's potato chip out of the can for my 40th birthday.

And I'm like, I wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere else. You know, and the friends that I made, that I have and that I've made over my lifetime as a surfer have been the most important friends that I still have today and they're all around the world. So I think I was really fortunate that I was on a great path and I really don't see anything I would have done to change it.

Kush: ~There is nothing at all you would have done differently? ~

Wingnut: ~I don't think so. You want to meet my dog? ~

~Cricket ~

Kush: ~Cricket wants to come in. I mean, it looks like it rained where you are as well. It rained here in San Francisco.~

Wingnut: ~Yeah, it did a little bit early and then it's just been gray and overcast ever since. So,~

Kush: ~it ~

Wingnut: ~fog came in, you couldn't, couldn't see the water.~

Kush: ~down there. So it's funny when it rains down there, Pacifica, the winds turn south. So Pacifica is, is, is offshore.~

Wingnut: ~Gets offshore, yeah.~

Kush: ~it's, it's not good. It's, it's a ~

Wingnut: ~Right, you, that's, ~

Kush: ~I'm not jealous of, uh, ~

Wingnut: ~yeah. ~

Kush: ~uh, Santa Cruz.~

Wingnut: ~But see that, that's good knowledge where you know that like, oh fantastic, it'll be offshore at Pacifica.~

Kush: ~Yeah, knowledge that I will only pass on to those who have earned, uh, earned ~

~their time. ~

Wingnut: ~Exactly, ~

Kush: Um, couple of maybe final fun questions. Um, what is one habit? What is one mundane habit that you do every day, which brings you outsized joy? 

Wingnut: I mean, it has to just be my morning walk with the dog. I make my cup of green tea, I take that little mutt, and we walk around Pleasure Point, [01:29:00] and it gets my day started, gets me in the right sense of mind, makes me, you know, I'm on dog number three, so, you know, it's been something I've done for a long time.

And I definitely miss it when I'm gone, so, yeah. So the first part of the routine, but I take that green tea with me everywhere.

Kush: What is perhaps one significant habit or behavior that you have adopted the last, let's say, five years that has impacted your life most meaningfully?

Wingnut: I think just focusing back on flexibility and stretching, getting back into a regular habit with it. Because I, again, too many people that can't touch their toes or can't do that, you know, the third world squat where you can sit on your heels, you know, for a half hour and talk to somebody. That's, I want to have that for [01:30:00] the rest of my life.

So 

Kush: Yeah. 

Wingnut: that's what I focus on.

Kush: Yeah. Same answer for me, but in your case maybe that's also helped your wine habit.

And then, uh, yeah. Final question. Let's think think of like the last time you spent a hundred dollars or something to that amount. And because you travel, it could be a different currency, which brought you the most joy.

Wingnut: It's probably pretty easy. I was, I was just in Mexico and my friend Regina and her boyfriend, Chano, who helped me look like a genius when I'm, And I've got, I've got a Regina in Chano in Costa Rica. I've got them in China. I've got them in Fiji and it's being able to take them to their favorite restaurant for a splurge meal for them, you know, and that just, you know, and they're like, I can't [01:31:00] believe we get to go here.

And, you know, we save this for special occasions. And I'm like, this is one, you know, and I make sure that when, We took care of them and everybody got what they needed to get paid for it. There was another 100 bill that went, and it's like, now you two go without me. I want you to go to Mina, I want you to have that meal, but without thinking you've got to host me.

Kush: I had this one. dance teacher in Cuba. I remember I was there for like a one week, uh, dance instruction intensive. And then one night I took him to this one restaurant I wish I'd done that sooner because he was so, yeah, he was so happy. It's been a, it's been a great conversation being that, uh, any parting thoughts before we end?

Wingnut: Just like you said, the whole thing about being locals. Treat people like you'd want to be treated. It's a much better way to go through life. Assume the best. Let people prove you 

that you're [01:32:00] wrong.

Kush: Yeah. Yeah, maybe also rephrase that as, you know, be a local, but in the best way.

Wingnut: Yeah, the best way. Be the local you want other locals to be.

Kush: ~There you go. Amazing. That needs to be, like, a sign on, like,~

~the ~

Wingnut: ~Exactly.~

Kush: ~Thanks a lot for ​~