#51 Into The Depths: No Wetsuit, 43 Degree Water, And 17 Hours Non-Stop, To Make History With The First Swim To Shark Island 🦈

""Swimming in 43-degree water with no wetsuit, knowing sharks could be nearby, pushes every cell in your body to scream for warmth and safety. But that’s where mental toughness comes in. You break it down—30 minutes at a time—pushing past the pain and fear to discover another level of yourself."🌊

Amy Appelhans Gubser has achieved what many considered impossible: swimming nearly 29.7 miles over 17 grueling hours, from the Golden Gate Bridge to the Farallon Islands—a feat that no man or woman had ever completed before.

Amy faced unimaginable challenges: freezing 43-degree water, shark-infested depths, and hours upon hours of relentless swimming without a wetsuit. Her journey is not just about athletic achievement—it’s a testament to mental toughness, preparation, and the power of believing in yourself.

In this episode, Amy shares what it takes to tackle one of the hardest swims in the world, the strategies she used to overcome fear and exhaustion, and the lessons she’s learned about pushing human limits.

Key Takeaways:

• 🥶 The Cold Reality: How Amy endured 43-degree water without a wetsuit and fought through the physical pain of extreme cold.
• 🦈 Swimming with Sharks: The psychological toll of swimming in shark territory—and how she kept her focus.
• 🔄 Adapt and Persist: The years of planning and setbacks—and how persistence and flexibility were key to her success.
• 🐟 Unexpected Challenges: Jellyfish stings, rough currents, and nature’s surprises—how Amy handled them all.
• 💪 Mental Toughness: How Amy pushed past fear and exhaustion to find strength she didn’t know she had.
• 🏥 Drawing Strength from Her Work: How her role as a nurse shaped her resilience and gave her the mental tools to face this monumental challenge.

Cover 📸 credit: Tom Sewell

🙏 Enjoying Ageless Athlete? Help keep the show going and Buy Me A Coffee! Every contribution helps keep the mic, and the inspiration flowing. Thanks for being here ❤️

---

Subscribe to the Ageless Athlete newsletter — 2× a month, no spam. We share behind-the-scenes reflections, longevity tips, and athlete wisdom you won’t find anywhere else. You can sign up at https://www.agelessathlete.co/newsletter/ 📩

Transcript

Ageless Athlete - Amy Appelhans Gubsers
===

Amy: [00:00:00] I am home right now and for breakfast this morning, I had two rice cakes with peanut butter and banana and some coffee.

Kush: Was that a lighter breakfast because you were meeting family for maybe a proper lunch later?

Amy: Well, that's possible, but that's my usual breakfast. Uh, I would say 300 days out of the year. Like it's perfect because it has protein and I love bananas just because it helps with my, um, cramping with when I exercise. And so that is my usual breakfast. 

Kush: Rice cakes are tasty.~ You know, it's funny how something can be nutritionally not bad for you, but can still be really, uh, Easy on the palate,~ but given, your likely exercise and your, athletic output, which we will get into, I would think you would not consume three, but maybe 30, you know, [00:01:00] just to have enough calories.

Amy: yeah, I, totally agree with you, but my body so resistant to a lot of calories. I, if I eat more, I just gain more weight. So I've had to figure out a balance for my nutrition and my ability to sustain my, um, exercise because I do. I, this morning, I swam 6, 000 plus meters and, you know, I definitely watch what my other friends can eat.

And if I ate that, I would be 500 pounds. It would be unbelievable. I just have some resistance. 

Kush: Yeah, that is so strange. I surf a little bit and yeah, I, I think the number of paddle strokes I, I put in a month is probably how much you probably put in a, in a day or in a couple of days of training. And [00:02:00] every time I go surfing, I come back and I'm eating like a, like scarfing down, like big plates of food.

So,

Amy: Yeah. If it's not nailed down, you'll eat it. I know. My husband serves as well and his appetite is also very robust. And I just, when I hit about 45, I just had to watch it. And I think I was from the stock of the genetics that could sustain famine and some disasters, maybe a zombie apocalypse too. I'm not sure, but I think I could survive it.

Kush: that is, uh, maybe in some way, then we'll get into it. Maybe in some ways that is this, uh, free talent you have because you, you, you know, you're swimming these monster distances. And you can, where finding those calories can be quite challenging. But, you know, you can just make every calorie count for so [00:03:00] much. 

Amy: I think it's true. Like, I, I definitely feel that probably sustains my unique abilities.

Kush: Amazing, amazing.

Amy: we just had to work with it.

Kush: Amy, tell us, who are you and what do you do? 

Amy: I am a 56 year old middle aged woman who has a wonderful family. have three now grandchildren, two children. I've been married for 25 years. And I am a registered nurse and I work at UCSF Benioff Children's Hospital. currently work in fetal cardiology, but I spent of those years at the bedside taking care of critical babies in the nursery, in the cardiac unit, and in the peds intensive care. So, yeah, I kind of am a jack of a lot of trades. 

Kush: what is amazing about your intro [00:04:00] is that in, in so many, so many ways, Amy, you are like the rest of us, you know, you are this everyday, um, hardworking family person living, living, let's say a more normal, quote, unquote, life. At the same time, Amy, you recently became the first person to complete the swim from the Golden Gate Bridge to the Farallon Islands, like, uh, a 30 mile, maybe almost journey through some of the most unpredictable and coldest waters.

We have not just an the California coast, but like anywhere globally, right? So it's funny when you describe yourself that does not even enter your, that you don't even start with that. So is that, is that somehow hint [00:05:00] to the kind of person you are, that you are out there doing superhuman things, but there, you have this very unassuming, uh, uh, quality about it.

Hmm.

Amy: extremely humble because there's so much to being an athlete that if you don't have yourself settled and grounded as an individual or or a family member, you can't be successful. So I define myself through my relationships first and my profession second. And then Swimming ability kind of came from the fact that I work in such an intense environment that I needed to find a space to ground myself.

So the more, you know, stress that I have at work, the more miles I swim. So it kind of just totally supported this, this, um, endeavor. [00:06:00] And I do feel that kind of funny when I walk into a room with world class athletes and I'm extremely underwhelming as far as that. If you saw me, I just looked like a middle aged woman and it's funny because my husband is very fit and he's a surfer and he looks, they always talk to him first, assuming that he is the athlete and he just points and we just get the biggest laugh.

I love it. That's what so funny is that it's unexpected. And that's. What I think gives me the most pleasure is just showing people and hopefully inspiring people that you can do these Amazing things if you just really try and you put yourself out there know what talents you might possess

Kush: And not only that, but, you know, think twice before you judge that person who's next to you

Amy: Yes,

Kush: at the checkout line, at the grocery store, because that [00:07:00] person might have just run a hundred miles in the morning or swam a hundred miles. You don't know.

Amy: ~yeah,~

Kush: ~we really have to really have to, uh, learn. to, to first of all, yeah, not jump into judgments ~

Amy: yeah,

Kush: ~and then, yeah, yeah.~

Let me, let me just, let me just leave it there. I want to ask you this question though, which is, we just mentioned about your, epic swim and obviously it didn't happen out of nowhere. You obviously have been swimming for a long time. Not only that, you have been open water swimming in cold waters.

So what is it about this activity that you love the most? 

Amy: I swam through college and I was really competitive. when I left swimming after college, I left a lot in that pool. I didn't fulfill my goals or dreams. I kind of left with a little bit of not a bitter taste, but just kind of unfinished [00:08:00] business. So flash forward 24 years later, I took a break to raise my family and I, and my profession.

And, I was challenged to get back into the water and it was February. So the coldest month out of the year. And a friend of mine challenged me to come swim at aquatic park February, 52 degree water with no wetsuit. And I thought he was absolutely bonkers. So of course I came up with every excuse in the book I could come with.

And he kept calling me out. He suggested, let's just arrive. Let's see how it goes. So I met him at the water I put my foot in and I couldn't even imagine getting in that cold water. How am I gonna get my body water? It's so cold. I mean, my toes already were cramping cause they were so cold. And then he started walking into the water a little bit further.

And so I kind of was walking and then [00:09:00] he, the water and swam off. Meanwhile, I'm standing there and as each step I was taking, started welling up in my eyes cause I was overwhelmed and I was starting to have attack because I couldn't imagine how I'm going to do this. And he just left me. So friend kind of noticed I was struggling a little bit and waited. He walked with me a little bit further then he said to me, he said, put your face in the water and swim. it kind of shocked me because by now I had been crying and he could actually visibly see that. I, I didn't know what else to do. So I put my face in the water and I started to swim and I'm not a bad swimmer.

And so I caught up to my friend and he had no idea. I had this panic attack and crying. And he said, Oh, there you are like so casually. And I didn't say anything about it. And his [00:10:00] friend must've told him later. But by that point, I started noticing that my body was warming up, but every cell within my body became alive.

It was, um, Undescribable. Like the endorphin rush that was happening

Was so incredible. So we swam a little bit further and then we got out of the water cause it's 52 degrees and you don't want to get hypothermic cause that's the test. If you start feeling really good, you need to get out. So I got out and I came home and my husband is just shaking his head.

He goes, how'd it go? He couldn't imagine me doing this and I said, I absolutely love it. I want to go back tomorrow and I had to bribe him with buying him a Ghirardelli's chocolate sundae if he would watch me swim because I didn't know any other people that were going. So he agreed to do that. That was an easy ask because he loves ice cream and [00:11:00] he watched me swim and I joined the South Bend Rowing Club after that. meeting my crazy friends. They just kept pushing and doing more crazy things. And I, I would go along and it's just been an incredible adventure the last 10 years doing this.

Kush: That is, uh, quite the beginning. And, uh, yeah. Little did your husband know, you know, of, your adventure the first time. And here we go. And yeah. and, and how long ago was that again? 10 years ago? Is that

Amy: like 10 years ago, 11 years coming up in February. And, you know, I realized that there was something that I was missing. And so as I was swimming in the open water, it just settled a lot of that unfinished swimming business that I had. And I'm not necessarily the fastest [00:12:00] swimmer of the open water swimmers, but I'm solid.

And I can enjoy swimming with a lot of friends that are of different speeds. And we have the greatest time. It's, we could travel all over the world and meet people. And it is. So amazing. I just, it's been such a great, great hobby to re engage and kind of settle this. It's wonderful. 

Kush: can you please repeat the name of this club one more time? Because I'm familiar with the aquatic club in San Francisco. And I think they have something called the Dolphin club.

Amy: the Dolphin Club

Kush: Yeah.

Amy: the clubs

Kush: Okay.

Amy: End Rowing Club is its neighbor.

Kush: Ah,

Amy: right next door to each other and I have several friends that are in the Dolphin Club.

Kush: okay.

Amy: joined the South End because I had a few more friends in that club and they both, [00:13:00] support swimmers in open water so well.

And we're so lucky that we have this resource right here in San Francisco. It's so amazing. 

Kush: it is an incredible community. Again, I, like I mentioned, I surf a little bit. I am not a natural swimmer though. I can do just about enough to save myself. And I have looked upon with a combination of both, um, jealousy and relief that I'm not a naturally gifted swimmer because, because, because what you guys are doing out there, you know, in 52 degree water, saying sweat suit is astonishing.

And I feel like, a lot of the people who are swimming at the. and the aquatic center. They, in many ways, seem like everyday people, but they have this [00:14:00] combination of, talent and tenacity

Amy: Yeah.

Kush: that is, truly astonishing. ~Like we were just talking about, Amy, I mentioned your, recent accomplishment, which is how kind of, how I learned about you.~

~To be very honest, it's a funny, I learned about your swim and having been in San Francisco a long time and having spent time in Pacifica because of surfing a long time. Like I would, I saw that I was like, Oh my God, I need to have Amy on Ageless Athlete. I did not know how to contact you through normal channels.~

Amy: ~froze. I'm~

Kush: ~I actually had a friend of mine. Who works at UCSF.~

Amy: ~So that froze for a long time and I couldn't hear your question. So sorry.~

Kush: ~Yeah, I was just, uh, I was just saying that, um, Uh, I was just saying that, um, I heard about you, Amy, when you first, uh, came up, when you first accomplished this swim, that's maybe how suddenly, you know, you broke through, uh, broke through the news. Having lived in San Francisco and having obviously looked at the Farallon Islands for a long time and having also learned to surf in the waters around here and I spent a lot, I spent way more time at Lindamar than I care to admit over the last 15 years.~

~What you did, like kind of, you know, blew me away. And it's a funny story that I thought I would share about how I actually, I did not know how to contact you because I just read that news story. I actually had a friend who's a nurse at UCSF. Um, I was asking Grace that, Hey, is there a way you could like figure out who this Amy is and see if she might be interested in ~ ~coming up for like a little chat?~

~So it's a funny story, but, okay. What I wanted to, uh, so we talked about your accomplishment, uh, um, uh, a few minutes ago, but~ I would love for you to describe this, Amy, in your words, knowing that a lot of the people listening to this podcast, they may not actually understand what an open water swim might be, especially what makes this swim also so remarkable because you did this in, um, Cold water.

Right. So please describe, uh, this, this thing that you did for like the everyday person.

Amy: Sure. Well, open water swimming is any body of water that you swim from point to point. And typically there's lakes in the Midwest that they have events in. There's the oceans on both coasts that have swim [00:15:00] events. And the reality is, Um, The accessibility to lakes and the ocean is our best resource in the whole United States. the fact that there's initiatives to clean up this open water has just allowed more areas for us to swim in. Now we're swimming in rivers and, know, I swam around Manhattan Island, um, in New York City. Like there's, there's things that people can do now. So open water has really kind of. unbridled.

It, it, it has so many possibilities. So for somebody that does pool swimming, you really can't fathom the distance you're covering because you're just going back and forth, back and forth. But when you're in open water, you swim to that point or you swim there and then you come back and you could see the distance.

And it just kind of is very, um, kind of reassuring, but also encouraging [00:16:00] because it seems almost unfathomable that you could do it and then you did it and then it's just kind of leads to more and more distance. So the swim that I did was from the Golden Gate Bridge the Fisherman Buoy at the Farallon Islands.

Now the Farallons are from the Golden Gate Bridge 29. 7 miles and five people have swam the other direction from the islands into the Golden Gate Bridge. I saw the swim the other direction because who swims toward the shark island, right? knowing my strengths, able to capitalize on that.

And I was able to use the colder water and the distance to the island in my favor. So the other people dove in at the island and it was cold, but then it got warmer as they approached San Francisco. Whereas I knew [00:17:00] it was going to get colder and I was swimming toward the sharks. So I just had to be mentally, physically prepared for this.

So spent a lot of time in the colder water. Um, I had to train for very many hours getting ready for this swim, knowing that the water temperature was going to drop down into the forties. So, It was already starting to warm up in the bay, so I had to kind of find other areas that still had colder water, like going up to the mountains and swimming in Donner Lake.

Um, I spent time, um, in the open water out past the Golden Gate Bridge, just out by Point Bonita where the water temperature can really vary because of the currents out there. And so it was a lot of prep, but I still was Not expecting the temperature that we ended up having for some of the swim, which was 43 degrees. [00:18:00] And that seemed to me for a long time, but it probably wasn't as long. But it was recorded and there were a lot of upwellings. the water off the continental shelf right there really frigid. And so the way the current was when we were approaching the island, that's where that cold water band was. And then as soon as the tide changed, the water temperature raised back up to 50, which seemed really warm to me point. But, you know, um, we were almost done. And I didn't want to stop because I didn't want to have to do it again. So I knew I had to get through it because it's hard to push through. It's painful when you swim in that cold. I mean, you're out in the cold and your hands start freezing, my whole body was doing that. So I had to figure out a way to get through that. So it was kind of mentally challenging, but [00:19:00] just knew I could do it.

Kush: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there is all the physical preparation that you spoke about and you can do that and you can do that. Maybe you can even double that, but when it comes down to it, it really is perhaps that mental toughness, I think. that allows you to get to the, get to the very end because, because there is just so much that you're having to overcome.

Amy, it's these, it's the length of the swim and the environment you're having to go through and the challenges, both some of them known and prepared for, but so many of them unexpected. You spoke about, uh, you know, some of the, uh, uh, the, the, the temperature variances.

Amy: Yeah.

Kush: just talk about that for a second.

[00:20:00] Again. cold water swimming in the forties, Sains wetsuit seems ridiculous, right? Because I swim in a 4, I surf in a 4. 3 or a 5. 4 sometimes. When the water temps, you know, dropped down to the early 50s, like now we are approaching winter swells. And, uh, you know, people are going to be busting out their thickest wetsuits, but you are there for hours on end, again, in a swimsuit.

And you have prepared for like temperatures of a certain kind swimming in, let's say Alpine lakes and with other kinds of training, but then the, the temperature dropped even further. Uh, it's, it's, I think it's one of those things, which is, is hard to, Get one's arms around if one is not an open water swimmer and surfs in cold water.

But [00:21:00] I think maybe, maybe, uh, the listener can just take this thing away that, um, you know, you have pool water. And please ask me, what is the, the, the typical temperature in a swimming pool? In the U. S.?

Amy: Yeah. It varies from If you have a competition pool, it's at 78 degrees, but most swim centers will be in the low eighties.

Kush: Wow.

Amy: I know,

Kush: ha ha,

Amy: a lot of training in the pool to work on my speed and my endurance and other ways, but I mean, you got to be able to compartmentalize. You can't take the whole thing was so big and so unruly and so unmanageable.

If you look at it in its entirety. if you could kind of focus on one thing at a time, I mean, swim was 17 hours. I mean, has anybody really enjoyed even sleeping 17 hours? Very rarely you wake up [00:22:00] sore, know, that's ridiculous and you can't eat for 17 hours. There's really nothing you can do pleasurable for that length of time.

Kush: totally true. Yes,

Amy: you can't. about that. You got to kind of break it down. So it's like you go half an hour at a time. I could manage to the next half an hour and I can manage to the next and I can manage to the next and you kind of just string it together. And then as far as the variables, like temperature dropping, that was unexpected.

I, I couldn't think about it. I just had to figure out at least when I'm swimming, I'm generating heat. When you're surfing, there's a lot of paddling and then you wait. and then you catch a wave and then you got to grind it back out. And then by the time you get back out in the lineup, you actually got your heat again, but then you're sitting waiting for the wave again, then

Kush: true.

Amy: drops.

Kush: True.

Amy: I think that that's one of the advantages of just a constant, um, steady pace is just that you keep [00:23:00] generating heat.

Kush: Wow. Wow.

Amy: things down into manageable pieces, you can kind of accomplish a lot of tactics. uh, tactics and skills that you don't realize you have. that's kind of how I worked it. I just had to have a good crew around me of my really good training partners and friends. And I knew that I, my life was in their hand. Literally when I asked them to be on my swim, there's, you know, the reality that we're going into shark water and anything could happen. And. don't think that we all appreciated the gravity of that ask until the swim was over and we all like, we're really overwhelmed by that, you know, like, you know, there could have been a shark issue. There could have been, I mean, I passed a few carcasses of seals, half eaten seals. Yeah, the [00:24:00] captain, I know, I know, I didn't know about it.

Thank God. But. The captain, he's a fisherman out there, so he knows what to look for. He's looking for bait balls and what to avoid. well, before one of the, my, pay swimmers jumped in the water, because I had three pay swimmers that swam an hour at a time, the captain called him up and pointed, and my friend Kirk looked out, and he goes, oh, well, a half eaten seal. And he goes, yeah, a shark just ate it. I mean, that's fresh.

Said, well, that shark ate, we're good. And he jumped in the water and swam with me. And the captain was never so unbelievably humbled by that comment, but it was true. Like that's the shark you don't have to worry about anymore. That was, had already eaten. So, know, he got in the water with me and he couldn't really say no because he knew he was there to help me. And. was the ask. So we were very grateful [00:25:00] that nothing bad happened.

Kush: ~I'm sorry. Um, I, I never had this kind of a back connection, but, uh, the last thing that you said with the captain getting in. I missed the last minute of the ~

Amy: ~You're back.~

Kush: ~Yeah, I've never had this bad of a connection, Amy. I, I'm deeply sorry. Um, let's do, let's just try this one last time, which is, um, I missed, uh, the last minute of what happened when the, the particular thing with the shark. I'm going to ask you to leave the recording and I'm going to leave the recording myself.~

~And let's just rejoin and let's, let's hope, uh, it, and you have a, you have a good connection yourself. Your wifi is fast~

Amy: ~I have, I'm on my wifi and~

Kush: ~and it's fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.~

Amy: ~It's~

Kush: ~good. Okay. Let us,~

Amy: ~one on today.~

Kush: ~yeah, let us, let's both leave this and both come back and hopefully she'll fix it. Yeah.~

Amy: ~Okay, let's try it again.~

Kush: ~Yeah. Thanks.~

~​ ~

Kush: ~It's good. I've got full bars. Okay. There we are. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Let's, uh, so I'm recording now. So, um, we, we were talking about, about how you're talking about how, you know, you saw half eaten sea carcasses and, uh, you talk about how we knew that they were. You know, shocks in the water and then something happened, uh, with like the captain helping out or some unexpected thing happened, would you mind, uh, ~

Amy: So two days before my swim, the original captain and boat had to back out and couldn't provide my trip, uh, and my event, he had another booking that he couldn't get out of. So I had to. last minute scramble and find another pilot and captain. And so my husband was a deputy Harbor master down in Half Moon Bay and knew, um, Chad Dahlberg, who his boat is called the Pacific rival.

And he's a, Fisherman. He has a beautiful boat, it's got great space on it, and he's a very squared away captain. Very trustworthy, and he also swam when he was younger, so he was game to try it. Um, salmon season was not allowed for commercial fishing, so he actually had the time available. [00:26:00] Two days before the swim, I had to secure him and that was a little bit of a challenge, but at the same time, I think it was actually the best thing that could have happened because it took the pressure off of certain aspects of the swim and we had to pivot and just make this work.

So, um, I was really grateful that he was available and willing. He really wanted to do a good job. And the reality is his boat being so big when it's at a trolling pace, when we were with the current, like when we first started. It was perfect for, so for the first six hours we were going side by side, it was perfect speed.

I was able to match what he was trolling at, but then the current stopped, the tide changed and the swim began. And we kind of knew that was going to happen, but we underestimated how often We'd have to [00:27:00] shift in and out of gears because of my speed and the current that was out there, but he remained on the helm and just worked it and we worked it together and it.

Was successful. I mean, it was, it was really amazing what he had to do to make it happen. So I was really grateful that I had, every time that I stopped for a feed, I'd have one of my crewmates drop a pin. The other crewmate that I had who was working with the instrumentation would look at the line that we'd snapped to get to the Island to make sure we're right on target and we would have to adjust.

And the captain and my three, you know, all three of them had to work together to keep me on task and right on target for the island. So if you looked at the line that my swim had posted, it was very straight, which is unbelievable with the amount of current out [00:28:00] there. 

Kush: Yeah. The team goes up to the occasion.

Yes. And maybe, maybe they were also moved by,

you will be modest and say that this was a team effort. And maybe it was, it was certainly required, but I think the fact that you had the, uh, the talent. And the gumption to go after this one is, is, uh, it's incredible. 

Amy: It's the, the team is really essential. You could train and be ready all yourself, but you can't be successful if you don't surround yourself with the proper team.

So I have to give them credit that I could not have accomplished it without them. 

Kush: Absolutely. Credit goes to them. We just went over, like, let's say one aspect of the challenge that you have to overcome. Um, let's actually go over trying to Trying to, uh, [00:29:00] help us understand what are some of the things you had to overcome.

So let's go into the known challenges first, right? When you are accomplishing or looking out to accomplish this, uh, this, uh, swim, what were some of the known challenges that you were prepared for? And then I would love to kind of just maybe take one step into Some of the other unknowns that came up.

Amy: Sure. So the known challenges are the migratory pattern of the shark, so I mean, let's start with the big one literally There are less sharks in May through beginning of July, they migrate. Now there are known sharks that reside at the islands year round. So the sharks, the islands are never without sharks, but there's less of them between April and the middle of July.[00:30:00] 

So that was my first window that I had to work with them. The second, objective and issue was the right tide and current to start the swim. So I knew that I would be between 15 and 18 hours for me and my swimming's ability to make it to the island if everything went smooth. So I had to kind of march back and find tides and currents that allowed me to reach the island midday.

Well, that presents the next challenge, which is weather systems. So we marched out to specific tide windows and the way that the weather system was queuing up, it blew out the first one with wind. The day that I actually ended up swimming, which was the 11th of May, wasn't even on our radar because I was going to have to [00:31:00] jump about three in the morning.

Which puts me right at the island at dinnertime for the sharks because typically the predatory pattern of a shark is also dawn and dusk and so the 11th was our least favorite day to have to do this swim in the time frame that we had kind of allotted and my crew availability, but the weather was perfect on that day.

So we had to go and I had to reckon with the fact that we were going to arrive at the shark Island around the typical predatory breed dinner time for the shark. 

Kush: Oh wow. 

Amy: Yeah. And then another unexpected event was when I was, Getting ready to jump in the water at the Golden Gate Bridge, we call into vessel traffic So that they can pay attention of all the ships coming and going [00:32:00] in the shipping lanes here for San Francisco It's the third biggest shipping port on the west coast So they have to know all the comings and goings and we were going to be bordering the shipping lane So it was out of respect that we let them know we were Swimming.

And, uh, I, we called in and vessel traffic, we had us repeat the coordinates starting and ending location three times cause they didn't believe it. The Coast Guard pipes in to also clarify information. And then the ship that was due to leave port asked if we could hold up 45 minutes till we pass until they passed us.

Because otherwise I'm in their way.

I mean, honestly, it took five years to execute this swim. Each year, there was something that did not come together. So [00:33:00] for us to not have to wait another year, we had to go on a day that was not the most desirable, but still could provide us with a The availability to get the swim done. So as I was talking with my captain and as we got held back waiting for that ship to pass and had to jump 45 minutes later, which definitely was going to put us right at the island around sunset.

My captain said he was less worried about sunset where the sharks typically feed than he was if it was dark He says he's out there fishing at the island and knows that's when the sharks actually hunt So he was grateful. I was on the boat at sunset that day. So that was one of the biggest challenges. 

Yeah, I just couldn't gear up for it again. So I really wanted to [00:34:00] execute it and I'm so grateful it all came together so despite those Unforeseen issues that we could not control we made it work and that's the bottom line is you always have a challenge you have to pivot you have to figure it out and that's kind of why it was successful.

Cause not only myself, but everybody was committed to making sure that this would go and this would happen and that we can make this successful. 

Kush: Amy, you certainly made it successful and sounds like, uh, the planning and also the bets that you made in concert with your team, those bets, paid off. Let's just zoom.

Yeah. Let's just zoom in on the whole planning around shorts, right? And you have spent more [00:35:00] time in the vicinity of Great Whites, off the coast here than most 

people, 

Kush: because many people may have been in boats and maybe they, they spend time in boats or maybe doing other activities, but being In your swimsuit, in the open water, swimming through some of the most shark infested waters known to man.

Because educate us, Amy, on what did you learn? What did you learn which both made you respect what you were getting into versus perhaps what made you feel some sense of, I don't know, reassurance that you're not afraid to Like you said, you know, in many ways you are this, um, uh, regular, uh, everyday, hardworking nurse, [00:36:00] family person.

So you were not looking for a suicidal mission. Many things into account going into the swim. So educate us because I think, I think in popular perception, sharks, Q. Steven Spielberg and Jaws, sharks sometimes get demonized and there are known risks and maybe risks that are blown out of proportion. So anyway, educate us.

Amy: Yeah. I think honestly, we as humans don't want to be the victim Like we don't have very many predators that actually attack humans. And so it is a natural fear having a shark that has a history of attacking on certain occasions. But if you really think about the number of sharks and the number of swimmers in shark [00:37:00] areas, if this were to be.

a target species. We were the food chain. There would be a lot more attacks and there's not. I think a lot of what happens is the shark is confused by what we are, not aware, and they don't have the ability of touching something. They touch with their mouth. Sometimes that's a problem because they have very sharp teeth and it can be quite devastating.

So I had to educate myself on just the natural patterns of the shark. I spoke to David McGuire, who's the shark steward here in San Francisco. I've, like, read just amazing volumes of antidotes and reports about sharks. I read the devil's teeth. I kind of really had to kind of reckon with a lot of the reality that I was going to be in their water.

I was actually infesting their water. That's their habitats. So [00:38:00] I had to be very respectful of what I, my mission was. So the advantage that I had was, I'm a human in just a regular bathing suit. I think the wetsuit makes some humans look more like a seal. So I feel that my body being more exposed.

Actually, it was more clear to them that I was not a seal and I purposely wore a black and white suit because it has like markings similar to an orca. and orca is one of the species that actually hunts shark. Yes, so that was what I used, um, as a defense mechanism, because that really, I didn't have anything else on my body.

And I had next to me, five, uh, miles from the island, my kayaker [00:39:00] actually had, um, a shark shield. So it's a six foot long electronic probe that skin divers and scuba divers wear in shark inhabited waters when they're diving. And I couldn't wear it on my body because it would make my swim, uh, disqualified because it would be an adjunct.

So we actually, my husband devised some dive weights to put the shark shield down several feet below the kayak. And he also designed a kind of a front that the actual probe went into so that it stayed always going one direction and not swiveling all over the place. So he had to kind of modify that a little bit.

So he felt confident that that was going to provide some safety. Um, And all the studies for this particular shark shield have shown that it is a very good [00:40:00] shark deterrent, but Honestly, I couldn't see anything because there was red tide in the water and anything past my fingertips was just murky. So that actually was not great, but at the same time, I don't think I want to see what was out there anyway.

I think that would have probably been a little bit too much. So the fact that we had the shield and. I had that natural bio protection of the red tide. I think that was the best. I mean, I felt the sharks and you surf. And if you get that weird shark feeling, they have actually statistically proven that that's 90% Accurate.

Kush: Wow. 

Amy: Yeah. Because the sharp cues into your electrical system. So your heart rate, it feels your heart rate. And so some of how it judges what you are is by the cadence of your natural biorhythm, which is your heartbeat. [00:41:00] So my whole goal was to not have the same heartbeat as a seal.

So that was interesting. Yeah. 

Kush: You just dropped so much knowledge on this. On us. I have surfed and many of my friends have surfed in San Francisco for a long time. And so has your, uh, husband. I have perhaps never felt that, uh, sixth sense maybe that there is a shark in the waters, though I have spoken with some even surfers on the show, like Dr. Reniker and he's talked about like shark sightings and maybe it's just, it's just a question of like time.

Um, like. And maybe I just haven't spent enough time to feel that. You felt that your husband has spent a lot of time. He felt that. How do you know, by the way, that that is a, let's say, a [00:42:00] shock that you're sensing in the water and not, let's say, a more, uh, benign, uh, animal like a dolphin? Because I've seen dolphins.

I don't know if I felt dolphins the same way, but you know, you see dolphins, you feel, uh, reassured. How do you know that what you're feeling was different. 

Amy: You know, I've swam a lot and actually you surfed at Lindamar, so I swim at Lindamar occasionally. And Lindamar can be sharky. So, um, from Crespi down to the north part of the beach, they have had shark sightings.

And one day I was swimming with for friends of mine. And we had a dolphin circling us very tight circles, very tight circles, very tight circles underneath us all around us. And when I looked at my friend, she said, we need to get going. And I said, I agree with you. I think there's a shark. So we didn't see it, but that dolphin definitely knew what [00:43:00] something was up and we both had that feeling.

So I know that that's one of the closest encounters that I had, but I didn't see the shark. But, it's, each animal that you see in the water has a different feeling. So, I can hear, Dolphin. I can hear whale because we have silicon earplugs and so I can feel their vibrations. Sharks are fish, so they don't put off the same impulses.

So it's just that spidey sense you get. That kind of is a little bit like you're creeped out. then you kind of have that knowledge that there's something else out here, but they don't necessarily want to eat human. We don't, we don't taste good. So I think. The sharks that are the most concerning are the juveniles that are transitioning from eating fish to eating [00:44:00] seals.

They're, they're hungry. They get too overwhelmed. They waste a lot of energy hunting. Those are the ones that are really scary. And at the Farallon Islands, they refer to that group of sharks as the rat pack. So they actually live from the South part of the Island around the back. And in Fisherman's Bay, where I swam into, there are several resident female sharks that are ginormous, like 18 foot to 20 feet, like they are very old and they're very savvy.

They all have different personalities, like the urchin divers know of them, and They mess with them a little bit, like, you know, might bump them or things like that, swim close to them, but they're not going to harm them. They're just checking them out, letting them know that they're there and they know that you're there.

So our whole goal was to approach this fishermen, you know, cove so that we would be where the [00:45:00] females were because they wouldn't have wasted their time or energy on attacking me because they would have looked at me, You know, I'm a splashing human with a yum, yum, yellow kayak around dinnertime. They probably thought we were just trying to punk them.

They were like, what shark are we filming now? Like, you know, what segment is this? Because we're not going to fall for that one. So I was hoping that that's what we were going with. And, um, we just stayed away from the rat pack because they're hungry. They're like, Hungry teenage boys. They eat your refrigerator.

Like, you know, same thing. They're hungry. So they'll try. 

Kush: Sure. I mean, they're hungry and they're curious. 

Amy: Exactly. Yeah. So I was just praying that we just nailed the swim from the right direction. 

Kush: Right. I have heard this theory over the years that.

It has [00:46:00] less, uh, yeah, San Francisco has less incidents because we have a more mature, white shark, uh, population, which, and, and that's why, you know, they are mature and they can distinguish, uh, you know, prey from seals and others from, you know, benign, benign, uh, creatures like, like humans.

Because also the other thing about white sharks is. is when they take a bite, you know, it's not like maybe getting bitten by let's say a bull shark or other tiger sharks, like those can also be very, um, injurious, but if a white shark really does decide to mess with you, they are so big and powerful, you don't really stand a chance.

A chance. Yeah. I mean, like if you hear of a story of somebody, you know, getting out with like, like just like a lost leg or something, I think that person was very lucky, right? [00:47:00] 

Amy: Exactly. Exactly. And I think your point is that we have mature sharks in San Francisco, and we have a very robust food chain. So we have Like since the 1970s when they made it illegal to hunt for the great whites and catch them, we have seen an explosion of population of the great white.

And also there's been a lot of protective measures protecting the sea lions, the seals, the elephant seals, which are their typical food source. So we have seen a lot of that population also like proliferating. So there's a lot of their known food available and you're right. Like if they were to attack a human, I mean, they may not mean to, but they're not, they, they usually bite and release.

Whereas a bull shark or a tiger shark will just keep eating because they eat and they eat tin [00:48:00] cans and they eat anything. So great whites are typically a much more selective, um, you know, hunter. So I do think that we're lucky in our area that we don't have very many incidents. We have a very, you know, robust food chain established, but.

It's something that we need to be cognizant of because you don't want to enter surfing in a bait ball. Like you just don't, like you don't want to put yourself at risk. And I think we have not been aware of such things, but down in Southern California, they've had more. Incidents where sharks have bitten humans because the human wasn't paying attention to the signs like a bait ball or, um, a lot of turbulence or a lot of seal activity and not aware that they should avoid that.

So I think maybe we're smarter up here. 

Kush: Yeah, well, I [00:49:00] mean, maybe we, well, you are certainly smarter. I mean, you were prodigious in your planning , I mean, we've talked about the shock challenge, which is huge. What are some of the other known challenges that you face?

Amy: So, the amount of training that I had to do to accomplish such a feat really takes a lot. And I had to train before I went to work. I had to train many hours on the weekends. My husband, thank goodness, partnered with me to help me. Make sure that I was supported and he understood that, but you know, I was getting up at like three 30 in the morning before work to go a few hours and then go to work and then come home and I'd go to bed at like seven 30 or eight o'clock at night.

I was exhausted and he had to kind of roll with that. And then all weekend long, I'd get my really long swims in. So. [00:50:00] You know, a lot of commitment from my family, you know, not being able to meet up with my family as regularly because they live out of state as I wished because of my commitment to training, or if I did go, I had to be training when I was there.

So that's something that I think people that do endurance sports have to really balance that. challenge. And that's something that's unexpected if you're not an endurance athlete that has to commit to that much training. 

Kush: Well, I suppose your family understood or maybe didn't understand really the enormity of what you were about to undertake, but they somehow gave you that, uh, latitude that, uh, either Amy's not going to be here for Thanksgiving, or she's here, but she will disappear [00:51:00] from like 3 a.

m. to some other hour because she's not sleeping like everybody else. She's in the pool and she's, uh, she's Putting the literally the miles in absolutely lots of challenges and planning that we can't all go over in this episode. Amy, take us first to that moment. I want to kind of go into the swim a little bit more.

You put all of this preparation in. You. All the information, all the planning, date alignment. You are about to enter the water, you know, you're wearing. So take us to that day. How did that day transpire? Time of day, weather, and how were you feeling? 

Amy: Yeah, well, 

Kush: you set out. 

Amy: Yeah, so I know this is going to probably [00:52:00] shock you, but I had to work a 10 hour shift before I swam.

So I finished my shift at 6 30. I came home and I ate pasta. I went and put myself to sleep. I was sleeping by 8 15 and I slept till midnight. So I woke up after four hours of sleeping. And my crew member, John was here at my house. Um, he met me here so we could drive into the city together. And my girlfriend, Jody was land crew.

So she drove us into the city. So I literally had four hours of sleep after working a shift. And, um, The weather was so bizarre. So that was the night that we had the Aurora Borealis But in San Francisco, till literally 4am, there was this fog that was so thick and heavy. And [00:53:00] I couldn't even see the Golden Gate Bridge when we were underneath it.

I couldn't even see the lights. I kept asking the captain, like, we're here? Like, I had no idea where I was. And so, We lit up the boat. We, I got myself ready to go. And after we waited for the tanker to pass, he said, go. And I, I had to jump in the water, but I literally had no idea where I was. I kind of knew which direction we were going to head because he was aimed that way.

And I, I just had to start swimming. And literally from that moment, You know, we jumped in the water, there's this bubble of fog and it followed us all the way to the island. Like it was absolutely bonkers. You couldn't even see a hundred meters out, a hundred meters up. It was all gray. And it went from dark like night to lighter gray when it was daylight back to a darker gray as sun was setting.

Like it was that. Like benign. I had no [00:54:00] idea where I was. I couldn't even see the island when I touched the buoy. I could barely see the outline of the island, which was 200 feet from my, my, like the buoy was like less than 200 feet to shore. So anyway, it was bizarre, but the reality was that it probably made it easier because I was in a sensory bubble and I just had to keep going.

So it was a little bit nuts. And, um, that was kind of what it was about and from behind our, when our boat left, I have an amazing photo that someone took of the Golden Gate Bridge with the Aurora Borealis. And it was literally an hour after we had left it, the fog had cleared. It just followed me out to the island.

So you're welcome. I took the fog with us, but it was a little bit crazy. And, uh, that was the weirdest experience that, that happened with the, with the [00:55:00] actual. weather system that we were not expecting. So that was kind of funny. 

Yeah. I mean like, honestly, like we just had that fog bubble the whole way and it was so nuts. And then at dawn, cause it was lighter gray, I looked up and there was these birds that were flying in a very erratic pattern and I yelled up to my crew, what kind of birds are those?

Cause they looked weird. They were bats. There was bats out in the middle of the ocean. Like we were 10 miles offshore. I know. So bizarre. So like we had the weirdest things. I thought that was the universe telling me I was bat shit crazy, which I loved. I laughed at that for a long time. So that was pretty funny.

Kush: Yeah, I just feel very, um, ill informed when it comes to my knowledge of the animal world. I did not know that there [00:56:00] were bats over open water. I thought bats lived in land and caves and others. 

Amy: Yeah, I have no idea. Apparently, my crew said there was some moths. that were flying and the bats must have followed the moths, but it was up and one of the bats landed on the boat that we were on and stayed coiled up in the coil of, of line that they had like for the boat when we tie off at the dock.

It 

Amy: stayed with us the whole time until we went back to Half Moon Bay. It was hilarious. I mean, I got a video of it. It's so weird. I know they landed on my crew. They were everywhere all over the boat. And the captain said he's been out in the waters for 20 plus years and has never seen anything like that.

It was funny. 

Kush: Yeah. Yeah. That's coming to bless your [00:57:00] swim. 

Amy: I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, you know, they're kind of. They're also misunderstood. 

Kush: They're also misunderstood. On the subject of animal encounters, let's see, we have sharks, we had bats. I'm wondering if there was any other natural phenomena which on the contrary maybe felt like Rejuvenating.

Maybe it gave you sort of sort of this lease for life when you were so exhausted, you know, confused, exhausted, disoriented, and maybe there's some signs from the natural world, which were encouraging you to keep moving. 

Amy: Yeah, there were these seals when we got close to the island, they were playing and jumping and leaping all behind me and around me.

And they were delightful because. They just, they're so [00:58:00] playful and so just hydrodynamic and they, they leap out of the water. They swim underneath you, they swim around and they're so fluid and yeah, that was very exciting. I loved watching them and that was the highlight of my swim. Um, my crew did see a blue whale.

And they saw a few humpbacks. I didn't see them. I could hear, I could hear the rumbling of the, the noise that they can make underwater, but I couldn't see them. And, um, so that was the only other like big animals. The, uh, jellyfish, I wouldn't say were, um, giving me a leash for life, but they certainly made me know I was alive because they zapped.

I'd have to peel them off my face. So they were, they were, they were not, they were not friendly, but you know, they were there and that's their water. So had to work with that. 

Kush: When these seals were playing around you, did that thought ever strike you that, you know, wherever seals [00:59:00] are close to you, you can also have, uh, Sharks trying to find seals.

Amy: Yeah. I, yeah, of course. Like I was wondering if they were leading me to dinner. I'm not, you know, I don't know, but at the same time, what I was more excited about was, that I must be closer to shore because they don't necessarily hang out in the middle of the ocean. They like to be nearer to land so they could kind of take a break and dry off and warm up.

So I was more excited about that. 

Kush: Yeah. I had to kind of 

Amy: put the shark thing out of my head, you know, it was back there, but 

Kush: sure. I have this fun question to ask you. Um, I did not know enough about open water swimming, you know, at least up close and personal. personal, maybe in a, in a, in a media, uh, friendly way [01:00:00] until that movie about Diana Nayyad and, uh, her swim from Miami to Cuba, uh, came out, uh, so exemplary.

And I hope you won't mind this question, but I'm guessing you have been perhaps been asked about this before. Again, for the everyday person, can you? Maybe compare and contrast on some of those things that are different about what you accomplished and what Diana had to face in her swim. 

Amy: Yeah, I, the first and foremost is that she had an incredible swim.

I mean, the distance alone, the water temperature being hot, I think is a disadvantage. And also the jellyfish were amazing. just horrendous. And she reacted to them. That's why she had to wear that jellyfish suit. I mean, honestly, most people are most worried about sharks in open [01:01:00] water, but it's actually the jellyfish that are the bigger issue because they're in all waters and they're, really challenging and they have terrible jellyfish in all waters.

So that is actually a bigger challenge. Um, as far as Diana Nyad goes, she also had several attempts before she was successful. So I didn't even get a chance to start my swim, but it was five years. She had attempted it three other times before she was successful on her fourth. So a lot. of that dedication and retraining and ramping back up and having to gear back up for a huge swim, I can say is very similar because we both had to share that challenge of having to do it again.

And I would say that Honestly, like the amount of time and dedication is very similar. Uh, our challenges being cold water versus warm water. They [01:02:00] both have their issues. You know, I have swam open water in warm water and I find that that's harder for me. So I respect that. Yeah, I, I did the Maui Nui channels.

So they're from Maui, swim to Molokai, from Molokai to Lanai. Lanai back to Ma Maui. So they're about 12 miles each route and you do one a day. So, but I, I was horribly. impacted by the heat of the air and the water. So I think that challenge alone is just unbelievable. 

Kush: I hang on, hang on. You're saying like swimming in Hawaii or off the waters of Hawaii is harder in some ways than swimming in the cold Pacific?

Amy: Yeah, for me, definitely for me. I know not for everybody, but I found that being overheated was worse for me than being cold, if that makes sense. I 

Kush: see. Sure. You talked about the auto regulation that happens, [01:03:00] right? Because you're constantly moving and you're generating so much heat over so such a long time and maybe the cold water, uh, yeah, so for people who are listening and they are, uh, you know, stymied by the idea of even spending a couple of minutes in cold water, I guess the idea is not to spend a couple of minutes, but to spend like at least what, 30 minutes or something until your body, Acclimates and learns to, learns to, uh, uh, thrive in that, uh, in the, 

Amy: yeah.

And honestly, it doesn't even take 30 minutes. It literally can be a matter of five minutes. Most people, when they spend time in the ocean or the water of any sort, they play around and after five or six minutes, they're kind of done playing and then they stay in still. So a lot of that. is idle time. And that's where your body gets cold again.

So literally five minutes is all you need to get [01:04:00] going. And then you really warm up. 

Kush: There is such a narrow band of, um, athletes who endeavor to, to do these, um, you know, ultra long open water swims of this kind. I'm wondering, did you ever consult with, uh, maybe Diana Nayyad or other athletes and maybe exchange notes, maybe get inspiration, maybe share some learnings of your own?

Amy: Yeah, so the swim, open water swim community is actually quite collaborative and supportive. So, One of my biggest mentors and one of my best friends is Evan Morrison, who actually put together the open water swim database, as well as runs Marathon Swim Federation, um, and actually will, um, sanction the [01:05:00] swims and like review all the data and ensure that the swim was executed appropriately before they actually post the swim has successfully been accomplished.

So. He and I trained together for many years until he recently moved to Australia and now has a family of his own. But I feel so lucky that I had a lot of his guidance and his support. So I was able to kind of learn and then my biggest supporter and Just hero in the open water swim community is Sarah Thomas.

She is bar none, the ambassador to our sport. She's humble. She's approachable yet. She swam four back to back English channels. After fighting breast cancer and she is now like, she's still superhuman in so many regards, but she's been coaching a lot of [01:06:00] athletes and she'll, she'll consult me if she's got an athlete that has unique challenges that I also experienced.

Like I can't take the nutrition that she can take. I, I have to approach things differently because, but I also am in a totally different wheelhouse of cold water and. I also have friends that do ice swimming and so I consult them and cause the end of my swim was almost an ice mile because of the temperature of the water was six degrees Celsius.

I mean, Honestly, that was at the end of my big channel swim and that was just mind blowing for the world. So that was kind of fascinating, but I was prepared for that because of a lot of the support that I get from my swimmer friends from all over the world. So I, I think it's just been a great thing. I did hear from Diane and I had after my swim and she was so proud because she was also an older [01:07:00] woman competing and completing her, her swim and really had a lot of respect in that way.

So I felt very honored to have had her reach out to congratulate me. And that was really nice. So, but it's just great. Our community is so open and that's, what's great. We don't have. We don't judge. We like use people's wheelhouses and, and celebrate them, you know, cause I think that that's been the biggest thing that the open water community has gathered is that all of us have a unique talent and we can help one another.

So we might as well work together so we can all accomplish things. 

Kush: Yeah. Uh, I mean, all of, yeah, uh, small, very niche, um, community where nobody really understands. I mean, you guys, forgive my language, but you guys are kind of insane and unique in a [01:08:00] way. Yeah. I'm curious, was there perhaps one piece of advice you can think of that you got from Sarah or from others that not of a technical nature, but something that they shared with you, their heart on experience doing?

epic things where you're like, okay, when you're in the water, maybe that helped you in some deep way. 

Amy: Yeah. I think the biggest takeaway from all of the people that I've consulted is that there's a point in the swim where your body is trying so hard to convince you to stop because one little ache or pain can magnify and all of a sudden takes over the full portion of your brain.

And it could be. You're nauseous. It could be that your shoulder really hurts. It could be that you're not tolerating your feeds and [01:09:00] you've gotta figure out a way to push through. And each individual athlete has their own unique way of doing that. But sometimes hearing how they do it is funny because. It gives you another tool in your tool belt to pull out when you're in that spot where your body is telling you, you need to stop, you know, you're not able to finish this, you know, there's so many more reasons to stop than keep going.

You could pull that tool belt and pull that new tool out and try it and see how it works. And if you could just get yourself through a few more minutes, it really makes a difference. Like Sarah Thomas is big. One that is my takeaway that I tell everybody is. Never make a final decision when the, when it's dark, because a lot of our swims, we have to swim at night.

And that's the hardest challenge because you really can't see anything. There's so many unknowns under that water [01:10:00] for you to make a decision to quit at night should never be entertained because as soon as the light comes, you get rejuvenated and you can push through. So I've had several swimmers that have wanted to quit at night, and I keep telling him our rule was, and still is, we do not make a decision during the night.

Kush: I see. And that was 

Amy: huge. 

Kush: Yeah, I mean, swimming, I'm not a swimmer, and swimming at night seems so absolutely daunting. But using this one funny analogy from the world of rock climbing, um, you know, when you are, when I'm climbing up a wall, And it gets dark and I haven't done this too many times. And one thing that does happen is it, it tends to narrow my focus.

Yes. Right. Because, because, um, if I'm super tired and I have many pitches to go and I could see through a clear sky much higher, it just seems so much more overwhelming because [01:11:00] I'm like, Oh my God, I have so much more to climb. 

Amy: ~Oh my God, Kush. I want to hear this. I, it cut out and I was so enthralled with what you were just saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. How your focus becomes, like the sky was like during the day, it's like so open and overwhelming, but how at night, continue there because I, I'm so captivated. This is exactly so passionate.~

~I~ love it. 

Kush: Yeah, it's because, because, you know, you can only see as far as the headlamps allow. Yep. Right. So, so one is only immersed in problem solving for that little bit of, uh, a little bit of, uh, wall space. So that happens. The other thing that happens usually, at least with some sports when you're climbing, sounds quietened down.

So let's say you're climbing in Yosemite during the day, you know, you can kind of hear the muffled din. Um, the, the cars and the traffic and maybe even other climbers and maybe, maybe, uh, you know, uh, birds and whatnot, but at night, everything seems to just completely come to a silent thump. So, Sometimes like climbing at night, if one overcomes that, uh, fear of being in the dark, it allows one to focus on the task at hand.

Yes, [01:12:00] 

Amy: that's exactly how I approach that. I, I, it's so nice to hear you resonate that because when you are swimming at night, same thing, you could only control what's right in front of you. I find it really zen like because you have to get into a rhythm, you have to get into a flow, and you have to be trusting what's going on with what you can see.

And it's just amazing. I actually Find it distressing sometimes swimming in the day because I there's too much stimulus. Yeah, I prefer the night It's beautiful, but I am captivated. Sorry, my dog's barking at me. Um, I'm captivated by Just climbers in general. I when I saw Dawn wall, you know and you know, like I watched k2 I have like watched all these climbing movies.

I am obsessed. [01:13:00] Alec Hornhold was articulating kind of how he goes into that space to get ready for, you know, his free solo. 

And 

Amy: I looked at my husband and he's like, I get it. I get it now. I mean, like he just spoke for my soul. It's just like how you were speaking when you're focusing at night and all you could see in control is right, right in front of you.

And, you know, your senses are heightened, yet there's more quiet and more internal resonation. I think it's just the most magical space to be in. When you're doing something of this nature, 

Kush: what would be amazing is if I could ever get, uh, let's say you and maybe, uh, Alex or Tommy Caldwell, or maybe some of some, some other like climbing bad asses and maybe get, let's say an, an ultra running bad ass, you know, again, running through the night, you know, in the Sierras and get you guys together and, uh, have you talk about, uh, [01:14:00] some of these experiences because, um, I can't, as even as a client, I can't quite relate to what those people do.

I can only do that in like this very, uh, tiny slice, but hearing you guys exchange, uh, mind meld would be, uh, 

Amy: Oh my God. I agree. I would be a hundred percent in on that because I think that there's just a different space. We just have to go deeper. So you, you have this slice. but you do still have that whole pie you could dive into.

You just don't know how deep you can go. And it's just, It's amazing when you kind of can tap into that and you know that you could trust things to that nature and it's just, it's just, it flows in such a natural sort of way, but I definitely think like climbing has a lot to do with cadence and with like rhythm and strength.

[01:15:00] And, you know, I just. I, I'm just captivated by it. Like, honestly, like I seriously watch all the shows all the time. I'm obsessed and I'm kind of fearful of heights, but I know where you go to have to do that. Like, I just know you have to just take a deep breath and you don't overwhelm yourself by thinking of the whole thing you'd like focus on little bits at a time, chip it away.

Kush: Yeah. I sense that the, the, the, uh, admiration is, is very, uh, Um, one kind of question I wanted to ask you is, um, so a lot of people, you know, they've watched Diana Nayan's movie and one image that kind of stuck with me at least was Diana slurping down pasta, Jodie Foster feeding, feeding her, you know, in the movie, pasta as she's upside down, uh, Taking a feeling break.

I know that you have this, again, this, uh, remarkable ability to [01:16:00] make your calories last. Amy, what were you, uh, feeding on through this long swim? 

Amy: Yeah, so I use a product that's no longer being produced, so I have this coveted supply of CarboPro. And CarboPro is, um, a carbohydrate that's a quick release that you can mix with any product and it takes on the taste of that.

So it's kind of tasteless, but I mixed my CarboPro with chicken bone broth. So it had a high protein content, had a little bit of fat and the, it tasted. whether it be cold or warm, like chicken soup. So it was, it was brilliant. And then the solid foods that I ate were mashed potatoes that were quite watered down with more butter for the fat to prolong the uptake of the carbohydrate.

And, um, I [01:17:00] love peaches. So peaches were, and the syrup just cut the taste of the salts on your tongue. So they were delicious. And Then I was hungry at one point because like that doesn't really fill you. I wanted a granola bar. So I had a granola bar, but I mean, honestly, I tried to keep it really simple. I had water so I could have hydration and I had hot chocolate.

when it was colder water so I could have a quick sugar and I love Coca Cola. Coca Cola is magic. If anything goes sideways, give me a Coke. And that just cheers me up because it gives you a quick sugar. It's, you know, I know it can peak you and kind of spike it a little bit, but I always try to, Like, keep another, like, layer of either fat or fiber of some sort to hold that carbohydrate so it doesn't peak too high.

So, I mean, I'm pretty mindful about all of those nutritional aspects, but I, I really liked [01:18:00] my, uh, CarboPro with the chicken bone broth. That was magic. It worked well. 

Kush: Amazing. Well, that product is no longer available, but 

Amy: I have to research some more. I I'm, I'm a little daunting. It's a little daunting because there's so many out there.

There's several that I, um, intend to try this winter. So we'll see which one I land on. 

Kush: Sure. But I will say that this may have been the most, Beneficent use of Coca Cola. Yes. I have ever heard about. I have not heard a single good thing about Coca Cola. I'm sorry, but this might be, but maybe the lesson is, hey, unless, unless you are embarking on something close to what you have done, Amy, please do not drink Coke.

It rots teeth. 

Amy: Oh, I know that. But if you talk to any ultra marathon runner, guaranteed they will drink [01:19:00] Coke. they drink solid coke. It's just, it's a quick pick me up. Um, but yeah, I, I don't drink it often. I just reserve it for those special events that I need it. And I learned it from an ultra marathon runner.

So, yeah, yeah. And, um, so if, if, if. You watch like marathons, they will have a station where there's carbonated sodas and 

Kush: where 

Amy: typically it's coke. 

Kush: Sure, sure. Yeah, it's pretty funny. I know. Amazing. Um, let's talk about, uh, a bit of the physical and mental preparation and maybe what we can learn from you, Amy.

Actually, let's start with the mental first. So, or maybe I will let you choose. Do you want to learn about some of the, you spoke about some of the long swims that you did in preparation, the, the many years of planning and [01:20:00] waiting, anything else you want to share about the physical preparation and then where mental.

Toughness and how you got ready came into play as well. 

Amy: Yeah. So physically, I think that's much more straightforward because there's more of a math to it. There's more of like, okay, if I'm going to accomplish a 30 mile swim, I have to be swimming 30 miles a week by this point, then I have to crank it up a little bit more to maybe 40 miles a week, about six weeks out, then you taper it down and there's more of a science to it.

So it's just more about. mentally getting ready to execute that cadence of training, because it doesn't mean that you do it at a slower pace. It means you swim at a fast pace, that you swim hard, that you swim long, and you have to diversely challenge yourself. So it's, I would say that the physical preparation is much more, [01:21:00] you could plot it out and map it out so much easier.

But the reality is, the mental preparation is kind of what makes or breaks people. So, I will say that professionally, I have the best prep for mental toughness. I mean, I would be working, trying to save a child's life at the bedside. And fighting so hard to make that happen and then to shift gears, take care of my other patient who's actively peacefully needing to die.

And how do I meet that family in that space? And how do I take care of the patient in that space? And I have to shift gears so many times. And then the next minute I'm admitting a brand new patient and with an unknown diagnosis of something. And how do you handle that? I mean, when you're working in pediatrics, you don't have one patient.

You have the. the patient and you have the family. So, you know, [01:22:00] you know, you have to learn how to sift through and deal with that, but be present and available. So I think my whole profession led me up to meeting. And being available to meet this mental state that I had to go into because I had to know about the sharks, but I had to put them in the back of my mind, but they were still there.

Then I had to know about other things and other challenges, but deal with them one at a time, but still remain present. So I think that the mental toughness is if somebody can wrangle with that, they've actually accomplished the most. Incredible aspect to their feet that they, if they, if you could just grapple with that and keep a cool level head, you've really accomplished a lot.

I've crude a lot for people. I've seen people meltdown have, you know, [01:23:00] crying and not able to finish. And then they pull themselves together and that's the type of swimmer I Thought was the hardest challenged and they overcame that. That's amazing. So I really learned a lot from actually helping a lot of other people.

And so I think that all of the events that I did leading up to this swim prepared me in much more of a mental capacity than I had previously imagined. Yeah. 

Kush: That is remarkable. And maybe the most, uh, unorthodox way I could have thought about. That was not the answer. Yeah. I mean, that, that sounds so powerful, but again, it seems amazing at your ability to take lessons from your day to day, apply that while you were facing [01:24:00] mountains of your own. 

I'm wondering if there is something you can share with us where. You were again, let's say, down to, you know, your reserves, you know, your fighting conditions. Do you actually bring up any, maybe illustrate that a little bit more for us? Because I, I'm so fascinated by how you're taking lessons from your work at the hospital, saving lives, or sometimes worse. not being able to save lives and you're able to use that in this fashion in helping you overcome a massive obstacle.

Can you illustrate how do you manifest that? 

Amy: Yeah, it's, it's pretty fascinating, but when I'm at work and I'm working with my patients, I didn't cause what's [01:25:00] going on with them. My whole job is to make it better. So. I would approach each situation at work with The intent of making this situation a little bit better.

Whether it be a mother has never touched their child because they couldn't hold them because the baby was so sick. But maybe I could have her brush the baby's hair today. Or maybe I can have her put some lip balm because the lips look chapped or Something just to make her feel like a mother. Like that was the best gift that I could give that person.

And knowing that that was the takeaway made it better for them that day. It might not have changed the overall situation, but for that moment in that time, that person felt better. And when I'm on a swim like this, I mean, I thought a lot, a lot about patients that I had cared for. [01:26:00] Um, I had a very special patient that we fought so hard.

For a year, over a year, she was on a heart machine and a dialysis circuit. She finally got her kidney and heart transplant and she ended up passing because she got an overriding sepsis and it just crushed my soul. I loved that little girl so much. And What I learned from that was she would tell me, I don't feel good today, but maybe tomorrow I will.

And I thought to myself, you know, she's pretty profound, this little child. And so mile after mile, when I had challenges, like there was a point when the water was so cold and I didn't think I could finish, like, I just was so overwhelmed by the cold. And I have a lot of fat reserves and I kept yelling at my body, like, find something to burn.

There's gotta be some fat cell you can find [01:27:00] right now that can convert to energy. And I just knew that it was going to get better because it had, it, it couldn't get much worse. So I think that those challenges and the things that I've learned in my profession were so profound and important in my ability to kind of keep my head in the right space to keep calm because you waste so much energy when you get upset and, um, flustered or, overwhelmed.

So trying to just stay calm, it was what I, Had to just really tell myself on a regular basis and I had the mantra I can do hard things and I just up repeating that over and over and you know, it just it's one of those things but honestly, I feel that if you as an individual can help just Not [01:28:00] overwhelm or have somebody be overwhelmed It's just the best gift that you could give that person because they're gonna get clarity.

You're gonna get clarity you can get through anything if you could just Keep an open mind and an open heart because that will help just guide you in so many different ways. 

Kush: Amy, that was, um, thanks for sharing that. Those of us who don't have, let's say, professions such as yours, I'm sensing that there are lessons we can pull from our own lives.

that we may be blind to and apply them in a similar fashion. So do you have any advice for us when we are facing, let's say our own challenge on what we can draw on? 

Amy: I think the best thing that I've ever done, and most people don't take the time to do but [01:29:00] should, is we all possess unique abilities and characteristics.

And whether it be that you're an engineer, you're a scientist, you're even a teacher, like there are certain aspects to you and your job that you have to get through, and writing a list of what makes you successful in your job can help translate. To what makes you successful and your accomplishments in sport, because you would be surprised.

I've seen the most incredible, like scientists just have a very deliberate, decisive, calculated approach and they execute it perfectly because that resonates to their soul. And they can actually translate. I've seen teachers that develop great lesson plans and kind of can work with how all these obstacles are, and they can use that to their favor.

So, each profession has And each way that we [01:30:00] approach our profession has more unique attributes than most people realize, but taking the time to actually just sit down and write it down is your first step because you'd be surprised at what makes you successful in your, in your career and your profession and your passion mirror one another much more closely than most people realize.

Kush: So insightful because that, yeah, that totally turns this excuse on its head when people talk about how Their job is so intense or their day was difficult and that's why they couldn't bring the fire to their training session after work because they felt spent, drained, whatnot. You however, you know, take that intensity.

Amy: Having people use their, I think people give a lot at their, their work, but they forget that. [01:31:00] They are equally as important and it's okay to have a training session.

Like this morning I intended to do a lot more in the pool and I just didn't feel great. So I just listened to my body and I, I, I kind of had to back down, but I think people, If they could just appreciate that their person and their body is equally as important as their profession, they would treat it as such and they would take their exercise and their sport to that level of showing that that's where they can also shine.

I, I think it mirrors, it's so much closer of a connection than people realize. But we also are stressed out, you know, and we got to allow ourself time to decompress, which I don't think we as a society have allowed. It's almost like people think you're lazy, but we don't give ourselves downtime like we should.

And, but I think that long distance endurance [01:32:00] sports is downtime because you could check out and you could think about nothing for a long time and it's awesome too. 

Kush: Yes, and sometimes you end up in the middle of the Pacific, where hopefully your phone is not working. 

Amy: Exactly, exactly. 

Kush: One less, uh. 

Amy: Yeah, one less deadline to worry about, you know.

Kush: Well, nearing the end of our time, maybe a couple of, uh, last questions. Amy, what advice Let's say beyond what we have spoken about already, would you give to others who are considering, let's say, a big goal or a physical challenge, especially if they are starting later in life? And you know, may, may feel scared by the scale of their dream because you, you started later, you dreamt, what can you teach us?

Amy: I would say the first thing is the hardest step is out the [01:33:00] door. So just going and giving it a try and giving yourself some grace. There's so much to learn when you go seek out a goal and what you first intend. to have it be might actually change into something different. So give yourself that grace and space to let that goal evolve and educate yourself, you know, learn from people that are already doing it.

Ask a lot of questions, try things, things are going to fail and don't be afraid of failure because what you do when you fail at something, you actually learn 10 times more and adapt that What can you do differently? Make yourself stronger mentally, physically, emotionally through those failures. So I think the best thing is to remember if you're an older person is that no one's gonna expect you to do anything.

So you might as well just blow their mind and crack them [01:34:00] up. Because that's the best. I love that. 

Kush: Oh, man. Okay. Yes, that's, that is true though. We are at least unburdened by the weight of societal. 

Amy: Exactly. Like no one would expect somebody in their mid fifties to go out and do like the hardest swim in the world.

Like who does that? And that's funny. It's really funny. 

Kush: Can I ask you a fun question? So I'm guessing most of your loved ones were familiar with your, um, your quest, but I'm curious, is there. What may have been, let's say the most incredulous reaction that you may have gotten that you can think about when people either heard of your planning this thing or hearing that you've accomplished this thing?

Amy: So I didn't talk about it with a lot of people. The people that are tight and close to me knew, and they also were the ones that could [01:35:00] support my crazy. Um, my family I mean, we could see the Farallon Islands when they peak out on the horizon from our house. And I would always joke with my family, I could swim there and they know I can.

So they would say, of course, mom, you could, or of course, honey, you can. And they would laugh, but. We've been around the water so much. So they just kind of supported that. I literally didn't tell any media. I didn't tell Mike, my cardiologist that I was working with that Friday had no idea I was doing that swim that night.

And when I came back to work on Monday, I didn't even talk about it. Like they had heard about it. Cause it went viral pretty quickly and they were laughing. It's like, why don't you talk about it? And I said, well, you, can't put it into context. It's not something that speaks in the same way that you could appreciate or understand.

And when they brought it up and it came out, [01:36:00] Dawned on them, then we would have a great laugh about it. And, but literally like the head cardiologist, who's the medical director of our program had no idea. And she, her husband was like freaking out saying, Oh my God, this was incredible. And she's like, what?

She just went to Alcatraz. Oh, 

Kush: I didn't 

Amy: even get it. Like a lot of things that people don't misperceive or just don't understand. I just find it funny because I can't make them understand when they're not ready. And I, I love it because I think it's so humanizing because. Really, we could do some incredible things in life and right in front of somebody and they don't see it.

So that's what's the best part is just go out and do it because you're going to feel accomplished and those who need to know will know and the others, they miss, they missed it. It's fine. , 

Kush: You're right. Sometimes it's, it's so difficult to [01:37:00] explain this, something which is so out of people's, uh, Radar. Yeah. And I like to joke that there are people in my family who know that I rock climb and they have known it for a very long time. Like my, I talked to my aunt and she's like, how was your hiking, uh, trip over the weekend?

And I, there's not much you can do to, um, No, it's funny though. It's funny. I'm just sensing, like, you know, your hospital room, your Your community because they must be like there's no way she did this thing because she just put in this 10 hour shift I 

Amy: know 

Kush: right before Anyway, um, maybe one last question Amy.

Is there something you wish you had known just earlier in your journey? Reacquainting yourself with swimming again, right that might have changed how you feel Approached these [01:38:00] goals. 

Amy: You know, I could always think back and what if I would have should have could have, but I totally feel that looking at my life and looking back at my swim career now, it definitely makes all sense.

And it fell into the place that it needed to be. I can tell you that when I was at college, my swim coach kept telling me, you're a distance swimmer. I can't get you to aerobic capacity. I can't get you to the threshold. I've never had a swimmer like you. I don't know what to do with you. And like, he was so, he over trained me and I wasn't mentally ready for it.

And I think that that failure is actually what Led me to being so successful now because after I started getting into open water swimming he started laughing go see I told you there you are and The successes that I've accomplished this later in life are so much more meaningful Than if I would have accomplished all the goals that I had set [01:39:00] forth younger.

I wasn't ready I needed to have a little bit more dark. I needed to have a little bit more success, failure, like balance, because I don't think that you become a really holistic until you challenge yourself on so many different levels. And I, Think that it all fell into place the way it needed to. I don't have any regrets of taking 24 years off.

I just think it makes it more rich. 

Kush: Yeah. 

Amy: It's funny. 

Kush: Yeah, yeah. Maybe, maybe it just drives that, that hunger, that passion. Because, you know, you didn't always have it available to you. And now that you Any Current goals. Yeah, I mean for that. Yeah. 

Amy: Yeah. Um, I actually, um, setting my sights for 2025 for, um, the Straits of Juan de Fuca.

So another cold water channel. [01:40:00] Um, it's typically about 47 degrees and it's a 12 mile span from Port Angeles. to Victoria, Canada. And the reason I want to do this swim is for my brother who's battling stage four pancreatic cancer. He lives in West Vancouver and he looks out under the Straits of Juan de Fuca from his home.

And. I'm going to do it in honor of him because even though he might not be able to physically see me, he's going to know I'm in that water just a little bit beyond his sights. And, you know, I, I have the ability physically to fight in a different way, but he has to fight every day for his life. So if I could have 12 miles of some discomfort to accomplish this goal in honor of him.

He was on my mind the whole way to my Farallon swim. And now another one of my brothers just got diagnosed with cancer. I'm the same [01:41:00] variety. And I just, I think that the little thing that I could do to have a successful experience with accomplishing a goal in honor of them is just what I'm aiming for right now.

So, that goal is coming up, uh, probably in August, maybe early September. And so I'm looking forward to that. The other is a smaller goal. Um, my daughter just moved to Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, and I'm going to go on a lighthouse swim journey and blow some minds because they don't swim in Lake Michigan like I want to.

So it'll be fun. 

Kush: Amazing. Being able to give back in this A profound way to honor and cherish the ones that are the closest and maybe on a more fun note to be able to, like, in your words, blow [01:42:00] people's minds by doing something they would have never imagined right in their own backyard. In this, uh, example, freezing Lake Michigan. 

Amy: Exactly. I can't wait. My son in law just was surfing Lake Michigan yesterday. And there's a small number of people that really take advantage of Lake Michigan, but he can't wait for me to get out there to show these people how to swim out there because the, The top of, um, Sturgeon Bay, um, is the top of Green Bay and they call it the top of Death's Door.

Oh. I kind of like that name. It's kind of cool. And it's between the top of the peninsula to Washington Island. They call that Death's Door because apparently it chewed up a lot of ships. Back in maritime early days and you know, there's Lake Michigan could be a very big brawny, terrible body of water that can be really unmanageable at times, but [01:43:00] they have this kayak race, but I'm gonna swim it.

Kush: Wow. 

Amy: They've never had anybody do that before, so I can't wait for that one. 

Kush: I have seen. Footage and video of people surfing the Great Lakes in the middle of winter, you know, with icicles hanging off their faces. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is swimming, is it done at all? Are you going to be doing something which is very rare?

Amy: You know, In the summertime, people enjoy the water, but I don't think they swim like I would want to swim. Um, I would swim like in the winter, like they do a polar plunge in the area, things like that. But I, there's groups that are all over the world that are in climates just like that, that swim all year round.

And I, I can't wait to meet up with more people to do that because you just have to show them and they can do it and it just grows. It's just so awesome. [01:44:00] 

Kush: Amy, thanks for showing us this way. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for inspiring us. Thanks for taking your time. It's been an amazing conversation. Good luck on your, uh, next upcoming big swim.

Amy: Well, I can't wait to hear what next you climb or surf or whatever you challenge. I can't wait to hear about that as well. I would celebrate that just as much as my swims and accomplishments. I love when people accomplish things they set out to do. That's my biggest. It resonates in my soul. I just get passionate when I hear that people have accomplished things that they set out to do.

So, I look forward to hearing about yours.